Thursday, May 29, 2008

Obama Half Way Home and its Only May



We are five months before the election and half of all Catholics are already prepared to vote for Barack Obama, about the same as the general population, according to a recent poll by Associated Press. The poll shows both Catholics and the electorate in general evenly divided between Senators Obama and McCain.
In analyzing the core data, Pew Forum Senior Fellow John Green says that for the first time since '88, the "observant white Catholic vote might be up for grabs." Green's research shows that "Conservative Catholics are very much in play." Even a "small shift" among Catholic voters in OH, PA and MI "could swing the election." Moreover, conservative Catholics "now appear to be more concerned about the economy and the war in Iraq, and less motivated by abortion." This may be "bad news" for McCain. With McCain having to fight for conservative white Catholics, then Hispanic, African American and progressive Catholics are probably unreachable for him.

Deal Hudson, a leading Republican Catholic, does not deny that the Catholic vote remains up for grabs. Not sugarcoating matters for his candidate McCain, Hudson is saying that "As things stand, I believe Catholics are still in play for McCain, if his campaign conducts a vigorous outreach."

McCain has a difficult but not impossible row to hoe with Catholic voters. McCain needs to preserve his support with moderate and independent voters while actively and publicly soliciting religious conservative voters. A mean trick in itself, he has stumbled in trying to both win the endorsements of evangelical Protestant ministers as well as conservative Catholic voters who take offense at anti-Catholic sermons given by these ministers. When McCain then does "a 180" and rejects the endorsement he once solicited, the evangelical ministers and their followers take offense.

The McCain campaign is also mortified at heavy handedness by a small number of media grabbing Catholic bishops and priests on barring communion to pro-choice politicians or those Catholics who vote for them. Reports of these actions appeal to conservative Catholics already in McCain's corner, but alienate the very undecided Catholics McCain needs to win.

For many Catholics, McCain has a better record on abortion than Obama, but given McCain's support for ESCR, opposition to federal legislation banning abortion, votes to support confirmation of Justices Stephen Breyer and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and opposition to funding federal programs with proven effectiveness at reducing the number of abortions, they are seriously considering if his moderate stance has any practical impact on the number of abortions or even if it is time to try for a few years a Democratic-led serious effort to develop positive programs to promote life rather than campaigning for restrictive half-measures.

Further, Catholics in the political center are taking seriously the Church's objection to U.S. policy in Iraq and the need to promote economic justice and the common good and Democrats have developed institutional structures to reach out on these issues (unlike past elections). Tricia Louis, a 43-year-old Republican and mother of four, attends Mass every Sunday near her home in Withamsville, Ohio, about 20 minutes from Cincinnati. She twice voted for Mr. Bush because of his stand against abortion. In March, she cast her ballot for Sen. Clinton. "I didn't think the war would go on as long as it has," Mrs. Louis said. "I still think abortion is murder, but I've known two soldiers who've been killed in Iraq. That's murder, too

Deal Hudson suggested that in the wake of the California Court decision on gay marriage, a focus on defending traditional marriage is the GOP's only hope to win Catholic and Protestant votes. However, McCain's admitted adultery, divorce and re-marriage makes him a very flawed spokesman for such an effort.

Obama has challenges as well with the Catholic vote. If he can win over Catholics who voted for Hillary Clinton in the primaries, he will have a majority of the Catholic vote. Obviously, these voters do not believe they are going to hell for a single vote for a pro-choice candidate. The rhetorical extremism of some Catholic conservatives works in Obama's favor, but a more civil and persuasive case may emerge by Catholics for McCain that could be very effective for the GOP.

32 comments:

Anonymous said...

Half of Catholics voting for Obama? That should cut down the communion line if the crazies have their way.

Kurt said...

I agree, it is looking much better this year than in the past. The Democrats have come a long way from when they were thought to be anti-religion. But I still think Obama lacks a program to really reach out to the other half of Catholics. There is a lot of evidence we will win them, not by our own merit, but because the harshness of conservative Catholics pushes them into our camp.

Obama still needs more than to just benefit from the mistakes of his opponents.

Sean said...

This is fantastic. I realy feel we are making a difference.

Mark said...

This is good info and I feel that it is accurate. I personally know several traditional republicans (catholic & Non Catholic) here in Alabama that are voting for Obama this election. There are several factors that have led to these voters changing their position such as the economy & the war in Iraq. It is becoming more difficult to defend the inept leadership of the past eight years. Nobody wants to drink the (republican)Kool-aid anymore. Our children are dying in an unjust war and we are making less money and working harder than at any point in the history of our country. We are reminded of this every time we go to the gas pump. People know that the Admin. Has lied and played on our worst fears. I feel that not only will Obama win the November election but I also feel that the Democratic Party will pick up several seats in the house and Senate. We have already started to see this happen. The Republicans lost Mississippi by 6 points. If the dems can take Miss. as they did all bets are off for other states.
I would venture to say that if you are a hardcore Bush republican Senator or Congressman (moderate Republicans are most likely safe) your seat is vulnerable. What this means is that when Barrack is elected Pres. He will have a congress that he can work with to get things accomplished such as affordable healthcare, and a withdrawal of our troops from Iraq. We have a great opportunity in front of us to change the failed policies of the past eight years and to move our country in a more positive direction. I cannot wait!!!
Mark

Rustler45 said...

mark SAID: Our children are dying in an unjust war....

RUSTLER SAYS: Please explain what is unjust.

Nutjob SAID: "That should cut down the communion line if the crazies have their way."

You mean those people who actually believe in The Catholic Faith?

KURT SAID: The Democrats have come a long way from when they were thought to be anti-religion.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA

So Kurt, tell me, who in his right mind thinks that Democrats are not anti-religion!

KURT SAID: But I still think Obama lacks a program to really reach out to the other half of Catholics.

Oh, you mean that he will tell us that he is a pro-life, homophobe, who now salutes the flag, and that he doesn't hate Jews anymore?

That should work.

KURT SAID: There is a lot of evidence we will win them, not by our own merit...

Oh Kurt, you are such a wit!

Yeah you can win by your usual ballot box stuffing and all the dead people that still have a right to vote.

KURT SAID: ...but because the harshness of conservative Catholics pushes them into our camp.

RUSTLER REPLIES: Oh that is so horrible that those lousy conservatives are so harsh. They are setting up death camps everywhere!!!

KURT SAID: Obama still needs more than to just benefit from the mistakes of his opponents.

RUSTLER SAYS: YOU said a mouthful!!!

SEAN SAID...
This is fantastic. I realy feel we are making a difference.

RUSTLER REPLIES: A difference in what? Making the degenerates happy? Letting them get married and such?

Mark, there is no such thing as a serious Catholic who can in good conscience vote for Obama. You may as well support Hillary.

MARK SAID: We are reminded of this every time we go to the gas pump.

Mark you genius, remember this, it is the liberals who have stopped all the oil drilling in the U.S. who are causing this problem.

Hey Mark, do you know who Chemical Alli was? Think back to that first question up above.

MARK WITTINGLY SAID: People know that the Admin. Has lied and played on our worst fears.

Mark, are all liberals paranoid?

Mark said...

Rustler, thanks for the compliments, questions and replies. I tried my best to answer and hope you find them helpful.

mark SAID: Our children are dying in an unjust war....
RUSTLER SAYS: Please explain what is unjust.


Unjust war would be the oposite of Just war.


Mark, there is no such thing as a serious Catholic who can in good conscience vote for Obama. You may as well support Hillary.


I respect your position & opinion but that is not the way I see it.


MARK SAID: We are reminded of this every time we go to the gas pump.

Rustler,$4 for a gallon of gas is a lot of money for someone like me and many of my neighbors.

Mark you genius, remember this, it is the liberals who have stopped all the oil drilling in the U.S. who are causing this problem.


Well Rustler it does not take a genius to know that crude oil is a finite resource.


Hey Mark, do you know who Chemical Alli was? Think back to that first question up above.

Yes.


MARK WITTINGLY SAID: People know that the Admin. Has lied and played on our worst fears.

No wit intended.

Mark, are all liberals paranoid?

What is a liberal?

Peace be with you.
Mark

John said...

Where I come from, Boston, almost all Catholics vote Democratic.

Rasputin said...

Kurt is full of crap. I was going to vote for Obama but after listening to Rustler, I'm voting for McCain. The man is one of the most articulate and persuasive writers I have every known. You can tell he is a man of deep faith.

Nurse Rachet said...

"Half of Catholics voting for Obama? That should cut down the communion line if the crazies have their way."

Good! Maybe we can get rid of the Eucharistic ministers.

Nurse Rachet said...

PS. I too have been moved by the Ruster's wisdom.

Rustler45 said...

Nurse Rachet said...
PS. I too have been moved by the Ruster's wisdom.

RUSTLER REPLIES: Hey Nurse Ratchet, it doesn't take any wisdom at all to outclass the the "wisdom" found in this blog.

FOR EXAMPLE CATCH THIS INANE ANSWER BY MARK: "Unjust war would be the oposite of Just war."

You can tell he hasn't put much thought into this, but what's new?

Check this idiotic statement by the same:

"Well Rustler it does not take a genius to know that crude oil is a finite resource."

Another thought provoking blurb! Hey Mark, what do you think is the fuel burning in the middle of the earth? Do you think it's going burn out next week?

Back to the unjust war for free oil!!!

See what I mean Nurse Ratchet? We're not dealing with mental giants in here.

Check this one out as well:

MARK SAID: I respect your position & opinion but that is not the way I see it.

(Nurse Ratchet, can you believe he said that?)

RUSTLER REPLIES: Oh really, that's really big of you Mark. Mark, do you know the difference between truth and fiction or between fact and opinion? Your statement could only be made by a simple-minded pro-choice robot. You haven't figured out the fallacy of pro-choice yet have you? You're not going to either. You're stuck in it and my words only anger you. You need to do a little reading in Scripture about the folly of fools. "A fool resents correction."

There you go Mark.

MARK SAID: What is a liberal?

I will do better at answering your question than you do at answering mine.

Here's the link to explain liberalism Mark, but don't bother it won't do you a bit of good. You're not going to read it anyway.

http://sacredcowpunchers.sosblog.com/Sacred-Cow-Punchers-b1.htm

In the words of my 19 year old daughter, "Dad, those people really are indoctrinated." [I.E., brainwashed]

MARK SAID: No wit intended.

RUSTLER LAUGHS AT A DUNCE: I know Mark.

You're really a winner Mark.

SeanDaly said...

I came across this site today by first doing research on Father Pfleger. So confused how a priest could say such things. Turns out he's violated Dogma on several occasions. Allowing Al Sharpton (who on R vs W day is one of the top protesters on the pro-choice side) to do a sermon at the alter is one example. Anyways, after reading the article in question here I was ready to hammer it and those who posted support. Rustler beat me to it turns out. Gotta love his style too. Keeps it pithy.

One thing that bothers me though that seems to go unrecognized...

Catholics in Iraq. Before we invaded they could not worship freely as we do. To pronounce your faith was a death sentence. Now Catholics are able to attend mass in some areas. But, in other areas they are killed and the churches destroyed by terrorists. An Archbishop as even kidnapped and later found dead.

To free these Catholics and allow them to worship in peace and to one day enjoy Mass without fear. Isn't that alone enough to support this war? These are our fellow Catholics.

Rustler45 said...

SEANDALY SAID: These are our fellow Catholics.

RUSTLER ASKS: Sean, I know you don't really think that they care about fellow Catholics.

Here's what they care about:

1. Being liberal is a "right."
2. Having an abortion is a "right."
3. Being homosexual is an inate human characteristic of some humans who choose to be that way and no one has a right to treat the ones who want to change.
4. Marriage for homosexuals.
5. Adoption by homosexuals.
6. Freedom for Muslims to practice a religion that is unpatriotic and practices polygamy.

Did I miss anything guys?

C'mon, let's hear your robotic responses that have been indoctrinated into your unthinking brains.

Kurt said...

Sean --

Sadaam was a man of great evil, but he didn't have any particular animus against Catholics. His Foreign Minister and right hand man was a Catholic.

Since the US invasion, the Catholics have suffered greatly and half have been forced to flee the country. Likely, there will be no Christians left in Iraq, even though they have been there since the Apostle Thomas brought the faith.

Mattheus Mei said...

Hey Mark, what do you think is the fuel burning in the middle of the earth? Do you think it's going burn out next week?

Rustler, I'm sure you just misspoke but let us recall from our schooling days that the earth's core is made up of iron and nickel. This inner core is surrounded by liquid metal, followed by the mantle which made up of solid rock and molten rock. We of course live on the crust of the planet where oil is located.

Oil is a hydrocarbon, there are two theories to how oil and other hydrocarbons (coal, etc.) form, Established thought says organic compounds decomposing and being compressed over hundreds of thousands of years develops into hydrocarbons. But also the theory that some hydrocarbons form abiologically meaning that some form from chemical reactions of inorganic compounds. The latter theory has been discarded by most scientists, although it is held by a minority, because from existing testing markers have been found that indicate biological origins. Therefore with that understanding oil is a finite resource that we can extract from the earth.

Catholics in Iraq. Before we invaded they could not worship freely as we do. To pronounce your faith was a death sentence. Now Catholics are able to attend mass in some areas. But, in other areas they are killed and the churches destroyed by terrorists. An Archbishop as even kidnapped and later found dead.

To free these Catholics and allow them to worship in peace and to one day enjoy Mass without fear. Isn't that alone enough to support this war? These are our fellow Catholics.


Sean this is a debatable statement.
The Vatican has even noted that Catholics, and Christians, were safer under Saddam, so says also the Anglican Vicar of Baghdad. That's not saying life was perfect far from it but what you offer is rightfully hopeful but in reality very speculative. Perhaps one day these folks will understand "freedom" (and maybe in our American sense that I believe you're implying), but for now and the immediate future sectarian violence rages and Christians are caught in the cross fire, and as long as we're there, they'll be viewed as collaborators and with suspicion.

SeanDaly said...

So it is our fault Catholics are being targets by Islamic fundamentalist? Or are you both proving my point that we can't leave and continue to help Iraq establish a stable democracy so that our fellow Catholics can worship freely?

And I hope both of you were not satisfied in any way or form with the way of life for Catholics under S.H. ?

Please source the Vatican's statement on Catholics safety Pre US invasion compared to now.

As far as Canon Andrew White the vicar of Iraq. Did you not read past the headline?

"But he said he still believed removing him was the right thing to do, for the sake of the long-term future of the country and its inhabitants....But the cleric, who is flown regularly to the US to advise President George Bush in person on what is happening in the country said he still thinks removing the dictator was the right thing to do. “For a while I didn’t, for a while I thought, things are so terrible but the reality was that there was no way the Iraqis could remove the regime themselves,” he said..... It was better for Christians under Saddam. Now life is bad for everybody but it will change."


Couldn't of said it better myself.
And it will change thanks to God and our brave troops. NOT the democrat party.

Rustler45 said...

mat SAID: "We of course live on the crust of the planet where oil is located."

mat, you are such a genius. Thanks for all your theories that do us no good whatsoever. Now tell me what the scientists say is the date that we will run out of oil if we continue at present rate?

mat SAID: "Well Rustler it does not take a genius to know that crude oil is a finite resource."

mat, are there any resourses that are not finite? And then tell us why we are buying oil from the Arabs while we have at least as much as they have and we're being stopped from drilling for it because of some whacky liberal idea that the caribou won't like it.

BTW, neither you nor kert nor markie have told us why the war is unjust. Why are you beating around the bush on this? If it is a fact, it should be plain enough that we all could see it.

Mattheus Mei said...

* the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
* all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
* there must be serious prospects of success;
* the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

Mattheus Mei said...

for those that don't recognize the language from my last comment, that's the list of requirements for having a "just war" (at least according to the Catechism). Therefore anything to the contrary of those bulleted points would suggest an unjust war. Whether it's missusing, making up or supressing intelligence about WMD as made evident from Richard Clark and Scott McClellan's books as well as other news articles, the shear lack of attempts at diplomacy to prevent a war, and the results of the war thus far - sectarian violence, verging on civil war are what draw me to conclude and understand this war as an unjust war.

Oh, and Rustler I never said:

"Well Rustler it does not take a genius to know that crude oil is a finite resource."

That was Mark. I do maintain that oil is a finite source as well as other hydrocarbons such as coal. Even more important is how inefficient they are. I personally am a huge fan of nuclear power which though a finite resource as well is soo much more effecient. The only infinite source of power I can think of would be cold fusion. I would add solar and geo-thermal but I'm sure that some one would probably say "but won't the sun blow up in 10 billion years, or make some similar argument about the earth's core cooling.

And to continue on Nuclear power and throw out something controversial....

I'm also for putting the wastes in Yucca Mountain (or blasting it off into space) and converting plutonium into usable fuel, MOX. An added bonus of Nuclear power is also the ability to create Hydrogen as a fuel source, which in turn would help decrease our use on oil and other hydrocarbons etc etc. I'm sure that some of my "liberal" friends will disagree with me on Nuclear power, but it's an opinion I've come to after reading both sides of the issue folks.

Mattheus Mei said...

oh and the year the oil is scheduled to run out if consumption increases yearly at the average current rate of increase 1.4% and we don't discover new sources of oil the oil will run out in 2056, according to the National Center for Policy Analysis

Mattheus Mei said...

Sean please refer to my line:

That's not saying life was perfect far from it but what you offer is rightfully hopeful but in reality very speculative.

I'm right there with you that I hope life will get better in Iraq, and I agree with the Statement of Rev White: Now life is bad for everybody but it will change where we disagree is if our continued presence helps or hinders that movement towards resolution and peace.

Mark said...

Rustler you are right in that I am “no mental giant or genius“. I have never claimed to be such a person. I do not know it all. Nor would I pretend to have all of the answers.
I am a simple man secure in the love of my family, my God and my country. I am blessed with the love of my family, a business that provides for my families needs. And the health to get up everyday and go to work.I do not have a great deal of money but my needs are met. I am happy. I am blessed with the love of God. I attend mass weekly with my family and I pray daily. I live in the greatest country on earth and I am voting for Barrack Obama for President. This is the reason I came to this website to talk with other supporters of Sen. Obama. I did not come to this site to be lectured and belittled by someone who has a difference of opinion. There are many other sites that I could go to (many that you promote on this site) for such views and opinion. I have asked my self” why are you participating on a website titled Catholics FOR Obama? You obviously are against Sen. Obama. Exactly what is your agenda? What do you hope to accomplish? Are you trying to convert people to your way of thinking? To vote for your candidate? Your Party? To see the world exactly as you do? To see the Catholic Church as you do? To believe only as you interpret issues? Are you participating to have honest dialog about the issues discussed or only to pass judgement?
Because based on your response to my post you are not entering into an honest debate nor are you interested in real debate. Instead you revert to juvenile name calling and sarcastic dialog.

“Your statement could only be made by a simple-minded pro-choice robot. “

“We're not dealing with mental giants in here”

“RUSTLER LAUGHS AT A DUNCE: I know Mark.
“You're really a winner Mark“.

I am an adult and you can talk to me in a civil manner. No matter how much I may disagree with your views I would never belittle you or treat you with the disrespect that you have shown me.
Your replies on this site are shallow assumptions.
Do not pretend for one second that you know who I am. You do not know my life.
You do not know what joy I have seen, what sorrow I have witnessed, what loss I have encountered nor what happiness I have felt. That would actually require listening and conversation. You have no idea about what has shaped my values, beliefs and convictions. Nor do you care. That is apparent in your remarks to me at this website.
You are judging me in a public forum. Last time I checked you were neither my Priest the Pope or God above. When did you earn the right to judge me? I do not know you. I have no idea if you are a man, woman, child, black white, republican, democrat, left, right, up, down…I would not disrespect you in a public forum for simply disagreeing with my point of view.

“MARK SAID: I respect your position & opinion but that is not the way I see it.
(Nurse Ratchet, can you believe he said that?)”

I have no idea who you are or what events have shaped your values and beliefs nor would I pretend to try to change your mind. You have your reasons as I have mine. I am not the one trying to indoctrinate. I have never walked in your shoes nor have you ever walked in mine. My daddy taught me many years ago….”son never judge another in haste…because you never know who you are talking to…and where they have been and what they have been through.” It was kind of a simple take on the old adage don’t judge a book by its cover. Simple? Yes . But not simple minded.
Mark

Mattheus Mei said...

bravo Mark, very well put!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the blog. I'm a Catholic who voted 2x for Bush on the abortion issue. Could I have been more naive? I'd rather vote for someone who says he's pro-choice, and has some integrity than vote for someone who says one thing (pro-life) and does another. Jesus said (Jesus? Oh yeah...) let your yes mean yes and your no mean no. I'm personally working on that!

Go Obama!

Rustler45 said...

mat said: "...for those that don't recognize the language from my last comment, that's the list of requirements for having a 'just war....'"

RUSTLER REPLIES: mat, I am quite familiar with your list. I have taught the class in my past. They are accurate points. Your hindsight of the war still is only an opinion. The opinions of our leaders, Republicans and Democrats, was that Saddam was a serious threat to world peace. You don't have to be 100% sure of meeting those criteria in order to execute warfare. Being 100% sure can be too late. We do have a right to make judgments in the interest of peace. Sometimes those judgments can be wrong, but that doesn't make the act of warfare immoral. The results we are seeing in Iraq, if you listen to other than our news media, indicate that we have and are accomplishing a great good. Again, that's from my perspective not yours. At this point you have no proof that your opinion of pulling out of Iraq will not undo our accomplishments causing far greater harm. You have to have SOLID proof in order to do that. Once a war is in progress you can't just pull out. It has to be finished. We are winning although our Marxist press will not tell you that. Have you ever talked to any of the returning soldiers or to their families about what is happening over there. I suggest you do so before making judgments about it's being unjust. We don't have all the answers and unless we have proof we do have to trust our leaders. That's all we can do.

As to WMDs, we know Saddam had and used them in the past. ALL our politicians believed he had them and was going to use them again. (I am convinced that he was smart enough to get them out of country in time to cause us the embarrassment of not finding any.) That alone is enough to make the war just.

MAT SAID: "...the shear lack of attempts at diplomacy to prevent a war..."

RUSTLER REPLIES: Only naivety
could make such a statement. You have to trust the judgment of our leadership unless you know for certain that it is mistaken. You also have to trust their good faith in protecting this country unless you can really prove differently.

I am just as concerned as anyone else as to whether or not a war we conduct is just or unjust. I have studied this subject for years and apply my knowledge in the military. I have been successful in convincing people, for example that bombing Japan was an unjust act of war. I don't take this lightly. Rash judgments are not acceptable.

MAT SAID: Oh, and Rustler I never said:

My apology mat. I had you confused with Mark.

MAT SAID: Therefore with that understanding oil is a finite resource that we can extract from the earth.

RUSTLER REPLIES: That's fine Mat, but I think we have several hundred years of oil left just in any one of our oil fields. We are not using it. Rather we are buying it from other sources and paying top dollar while the liberals are protecting some imaginary lone caribou out there in the wilderness. It's all politics as to why we pay dollars while in Venezuela they pay 21 cents a gallon.

Rustler45 said...

MARK SAID: I did not come to this site to be lectured and belittled by someone who has a difference of opinion.

RUSTLER REPLIES: Well Mark, if you don't like being lectured and belittled maybe you should speak to your buddies here as to their honesty of debate before complaining about your ill treatment. They are certainly not opposed to belittling or lecturing. Start at home Mark.

In my dealings with liberals in the past they are the most judgmental of all. I will quote myself from another forum to allow you my understanding of this. "I have been dealing with liberals in control of things for 40 years. They are uncompromising, tyrannical, and ruthless. They budge not an inch and never does reason move them to act to the best interest of The Church OR The People. They are power hungry dictators PERIOD. And when a just man is ruling they whine, squeal, and complain like that pig anony was describing. They will pull every underhanded dirty trick in the book and out of the book to regain control and make the just man look unjust."

So don't be accusing me of judging you.

Next, keep in mind that there were many good Catholics in good conscience, although mistaken or forced into Hitler's army. We had to shoot them. We don't really care about what nice guys they are or whether or not they have suffered much of their lives. They are attacking us and our lives are threatened.

To me you are the enemy. You are in the army that is going to unjustly destroy and kill this nation. I am ready to take up arms against you whether you are a great guy or not. Sorry about that.

I suggest that if you are going to be here that you pay attention to what your are saying before you say it. I have judged what you have said and not your character so stop whining about that.

Your statement about respecting my opinions is to me a statement without thought. It has nothing to do with what you tell in confession so please pull that dog off my back.

Next, YOU SAID: I am voting for Barrack Obama for President.

Mark, you have explained that you are a Catholic. Obama is a supporter of the worst kind of abortion. There are other serious moral issues with him, but that alone disallows YOU as a Catholic from voting for him. That's not my opinion. That's a fact. If you vote for him you are committing a serious sin. PERIOD. No ifs, ands, or buts.

I am not happy with the other candidate, but he is certainly the lesser of two evils. In that case you can vote for the lesser, but you won't see me out promoting him. I find even voting for the lesser of two evils to be disgusting even when I have to do so to prevent a worse situation. I am torn about that and in the past have on one occasion withheld my vote from either and on others have voted a 3rd party write in to avoid voting for the lesser of two evils.

Mark, it's late at night and my head hurts. This is the best I can do for an answer to you for now. If you can't grasp the immorality of voting for someone who promotes murder of the innocent I can do nothing for you.

Mark said...

Rustler Said :To me you are the enemy. You are in the army that is going to unjustly destroy and kill this nation. I am ready to take up arms against you whether you are a great guy or not. Sorry about that.

This is very inappropriate territory especially for a Christian based website( Catholics For Obama).Rustler, I really hope that this was just your headache talking because I feel threatened by the language. That said there is nothing else I am comfortable discussing with you. Because I feel you have taken the option of civil dialog off of the table with your comment. I may be overreacting (and I hope I am) however,I have heard this kind of talk all of my life and seen first hand the violence it breeds…Bobby Frank Cherry…Thomas Blanton…Eric Robert Rudolph….You may be a great guy but I do not know you outside of what you post on this forum.

Katherine said...

Mark --

I let Rustler post here (except when he curses or goes off about masturbation) not because I find any value in his posts (I rarely read them) or am so open minded.

But this blog is visited by honest Americans who have not yet made up their mind on how to vote. For these undecided, moderate, swing voters, being exposed to Rustler is one of the best things the Obama campaign has going for us.

Rustler45 said...

"Mark --I let Rustler post here (except when he curses or goes off about masturbation)...."

Well Katherine, what does that make you? I have done neither of those. Somebody else brought up the subject of masturbation and since then you and Batty Betty have been going off on it.

KATHERINE SAID:...not because I find any value in his posts (I rarely read them) or am so open minded.

RUSTLER REPLIES: That's because you can't answer my questions.

KATHERINE SAID: ...Rustler is one of the best things the Obama campaign has going for us.

RUSTLER LAUGHS: I guess if you can't debate you can always just say something stupid.

Rustler45 said...

Mark said...I really hope that this was just your headache talking because I feel threatened by the language.

RUSTLER LAUGHS AT A SISSY: I feel sorry for you Markie. You better not go to my forum:

http://lubiankaprison.phpbb-host.com/index.php?mforum=lubiankaprison

I have pictures of guns over there and they will probably make you wet your pants. I can't believe a grown man would whine like a baby by saying what you said. I am just shaking my head. You never did any time in the military did you? Good thing. Those DIs yelling at you would have given you Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.

AND THEN MARKIE SAID: Because I feel you have taken the option of civil dialog off of the table with your comment. I may be overreacting....

Markie, I don't think I can help you. It's better you don't post on the internet anymore. Go see your mama and tell her mean Ole Rustler was talking bad to you.

wah wah wah....

Bye Bye Markie

Rustler45 said...

BTW MARKIE SAID: This is very inappropriate territory especially for a Christian based website....

Markie, this is not a Christian based website. If somebody had a website called Catholics for Hitler, would you call that a Christian based website? Or how about Christians for Abortion?

This is a website that promotes abortion. It is not Catholic nor any form of Christian. If you think differently you're going to have to improve your IQ many points in order to advance to the level of Dunce, and it will take you a while.

shiloh said...

Katherine said...

I let Rustler post here (except when he curses or goes off about masturbation) not because I find any value in his posts (I rarely read them) or am so open minded.

But this blog is visited by honest Americans who have not yet made up their mind on how to vote. For these undecided, moderate, swing voters, being exposed to Rustler is one of the best things the Obama campaign has going for us.

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Too funny & so true Katherine, rustler45 is your typical one trick pony republican troll w/too much time on his hands & absolutely he is a good advertisement for voting for Obama.

I will just add that his nonsense is somewhat entertaining & his tunnel vision ad nauseam speaks volumes to his close minded attitude.

take care