Tuesday, November 18, 2008

Pope Expected to Welcome Obama at Vatican


Breaking news reports indicate that the Holy Father will receive President Barack Obama at the Vatican early this summer. This may even have been discussed in the telephone conversation the Holy Father and the President Elect had recently.

Many American Catholics are very pleased with the warm relationship being developed by the President Elect and His Holiness so soon after the election. Normal protocol usually puts these matters off until after the inauguration, but both men seem to have an interest in each other and a desire to move beyond the standard formalities.

42 comments:

Rustler45 said...

Actual email:
Fellow business executives, as the CFO of a business that employees 140 people, I have resigned myself to the fact that Barrack Obama will be our next President, and that our taxes and government fees will increase in a BIG way. To compensate for these increases, I figure that our clients will have to see an increase in our fees to them of about 8% but since we cannot increase our fees right now due to the dismal state of our economy, we will have to lay off eight of our employees instead. This has really been eating at me for a while, as we believe we are family here and I didn't know how to choose who will have to go. So, this is what I did. I strolled thru our parking lot and found eight Obama bumper stickers on our employees' cars and have decided these folks will be the first to be laid off. I can't think of a more fair way to approach this problem. These folks wanted change; I gave it to them. If you have a better idea, let me know.

Daniel J. Hermann | bioMerieux, Inc.
Distribution Manager - Cardinal Health
Phone: (919) 620-2197 | Fax: (919) 620-4212
100 Rodolphe Street, Durham, NC, 27712

shiloh said...

Breaking News ... Pope Benedict is the Pope of all Catholics, not just those Catholics who attend church!

Visited Rome in 1985 and Pope John Paul II waved to me from his window in the Vatican while I was standing in the crowd at St. Peter's Square. OK, the Pope was waving to everyone, not just me.

Saw the Sistine Chapel !!! Interesting to note the Catholic church didn't have a big problem w/gays ie Michaelangelo! and Leonardo da Vinci! back in the 15th and 16th century's ...

God bless the Pope and Barack Hussein Obama !!!

take care, blessings

Rustler45 said...

Ya'll's new Secretary of State issssssssss? Guess who?

Your own favorite communist Senator from New Yawk!

Be proud!!!

Anonymous said...

Shiloh, your statement regarding the Church's view of gays is absurd. The act of homosexuality was a sin then, is a sin now and will always be a sin.

Kurt said...

No one said Michaelangelo and Leonardo da Vinci were sinless. But they were employed by the Vatican, unlike conservatives who support the right to fire gay people from their jobs.

Anonymous said...

Kurt,to your last point, does an employer have the right to fire an employee if he were to wear a shirt with a big swastika on the front and back?

My point here is that if an employer wants to portray a certain image, it is up to the employer, is it not? Why would anyone want to work for company that did not want them?

Kurt said...

Kurt,to your last point, does an employer have the right to fire an employee if he were to wear a shirt with a big swastika on the front and back?

An employer may fire an employee for cause. An employer may establish a dress code for employees. This is a settled matter of labor law.

My point here is that if an employer wants to portray a certain image, it is up to the employer, is it not? Why would anyone want to work for company that did not want them?

You might ask the victims of discrimination (be it racial, gender, religion or sexual orientation) why. I imagine it is to put food on the table and a roof over the head.

shiloh said...

Anonymous said...

Shiloh, your statement regarding the Church's view of gays is absurd. The act of homosexuality was a sin then, is a sin now and will always be a sin.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kurt,to your last point, does an employer have the right to fire an employee if he were to wear a shirt with a big swastika on the front and back?

My point here is that if an employer wants to portray a certain image, it is up to the employer, is it not? Why would anyone want to work for company that did not want them?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Speaking of image, the Catholic church's image couldn't get any lower after their recent 40/50 year history of u.s. Cardinals and Bishops covering up, relocating etc. of gay, perverted, child molesting priests. All of this has been well-documented and discussed here and elsewhere ad nauseam so suffice it to say, the Catholic church's hypocrisy in this matter is hard to top!

So no, my statement regarding the Church's view of gays is/was not absurd just realistic. The Catholic church turned a blind eye when it came to their gay priest scandal/cover-up and only admitted the truth when the evidence was overwhelming and undeniable.

Not exactly the Catholic church's finest hour and they will be paying the price both financially and spiritually for some time to come.

And yes, according to church doctrine, being gay is a sin. The connection between gay behavior and the Catholic church is beyond ironic, of course.

As Bill Maher would say, all religions are based on a belief in spirits/ghosts. Which is why many scientists are atheist/agnostic ...

Moral certitude is a risky proposition ;) especially when one's religion is based on the concept of infinity! Always was and always will be is a theory w/no basis in scientific reality. Faith based propositions regarding right and wrong have continually been proving wrong over the course of history.

Once upon a time many Americans favored slavery, denying women the right to vote, were against interracial marriage, against equal opportunity for minorities etc. etc. and many of these beliefs were based on religion.

Just look to the Middle East for how religion denies women basic rights. In the course of history, more people have been killed in the name of religion than any other reason, I digress ...

When you find yourself in the majority, it's time to pause and reflect! ~ Mark Twain

take care, blessings

Anonymous said...

Why did you change the attack to the Catholic Church. This is what Sean Hannity did to Fr. Euteneuer when he was gently confronted on his lukewarm Catholisim.

The whole priest scandal involving gay priests was dispicable - wolves in sheeps clothing. Those seminaries that promoted and still promote dissent from the Church's teaching on sexual and other matters should be purged as well. These matters are scandalous.

I have a friend who faced major obstacles in pursuing the priesthood because he frankly held onto the Church's belief on matters sexual.

Don't you understand that the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth? It does not mean its members are sinless but means that God gave the Church the fullness of truth and when She teaches on faith and morals she is infallible. Do you believe in infallibility?

Other religions may or may not have any truth at all.

More people have been killed by Athiestic regimes than religion (Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, etc). I would agree with your statement if you are including atheism as a religion.

Of course the number one killer of persons today is the one who agrees to abort their child. There is much ignorance of and rejection of God on many different levels.

All religions are not equal. If you believe that, you don't understand your own religion. I suppose you profess to be Catholic.

Moral and doctrinal truths are not relative and don't change over time. Slavery is always wrong whether it was accepted by society or not. Race discrimination is always wrong. Abortion is always wrong. Homosexuality is always wrong. Rape is always wrong. Sex outside of marriage is always wrong. Do you believe in moral abolutes?

shiloh said...

The subject was gays and the Catholic church throughout history which btw you deflected ie changed the subject to employees in the work place and I expanded on.

The hypocrisy of the Catholic church is timeless!

Sean Hannity lol ...

Back on topic, I know, not understand most religions, including Catholicism is/are based on blind faith and I have already discussed the concept of Infinity, Catholics can choose to believe or not believe in one or all of the church's tenants and the Catholic church's hierarchy can choose to accept these fallible members or expel them from their fold based on how many sins or gravity of such sins ie abortion, etc.

As the past election indicated, most Catholics do not vote on the certitude or sanctity of one issue/tenant.

For the record, I am a non church going Christian, raised Roman Catholic and I don't believe one should be born into any religion, but that's another topic.

I believe in you are your brother's keeper, do unto others as you would have others do unto you, the truth will set you free! These are a few of my absolutes, but there is also personal responsibility.

If one believes the Bible, we are suffer from original sin just one of those blind faith concepts that drive scholars crazy.

And then there are many Protestants and Catholics who believe Jews can't go to Heaven because they don't believe in the son of God and other such gobbledygook. Who's to say one religion is right and another religion is wrong. The fact that there are a gazillion religions should be a definite red flag to all concerned.

OK, you get my point, if indeed I am making a point lol

p.s. If one truly believed in all of the Catholic religion teachings, one could argue that person is a Socialist! again I digress ...

take care, blessings

ray jay said...

Comparing gays to Nazis is like comparing black folks to the KKK.

But I also think Shiloh's statement "many of these beliefs were based on religion" is also misstated or wrong. I'd say "many of these beliefs were based on erroneous ideas about religion." No need to throw the baby out with the dirty bathwater.

shiloh said...

Forgot to mention one of my informed beliefs since grade school. You can take everything that is written in the Bible and interpret it "Every which way to Sunday!"

take care, blessings

Rustler45 said...

KURT SAID: "But they were employed by the Vatican, unlike conservatives who support the right to fire gay people from their jobs."

They weren't gay. Conservatives are right. We support the right to fire any employee for immoral behavior of any kind.

Whine whine whine.

Just put a gay in a supervisory position and watch what happens. #1. They treat normal people like crap.
#2. They only promote their own kind.
#3. The are constantly recruiting, pressuring, and harrassing those who work with or for them. I have many family members who have experienced such treatment.

For example--The homosexuals who were admitted into the seminaries. They are responsible for so much harm in the Church starting with the young boys who they molested and then covered up.

Rustler45 said...

SHYTER SAID: "The Catholic church turned a blind eye when it came to their gay priest scandal/cover-up and only admitted the truth when the evidence was overwhelming and undeniable."

Not true. The problem is being fixed. Some bishops did wrong. Some bishops are not The Church.

Anonymous said...

this is a gay site run by atheists who claim to be Catholics.

ray jay said...

shiloh wrote: "You can take everything that is written in the Bible and interpret it "Every which way to Sunday!"

--> Well, you can but that doesn't much get you anywhere, does it? Rather amorphous, jellyfish-like theology, no? And I'd also ask: informed by what and/or whom? Bill Mahler? He can be very funny at times but I don't think he's not exactly informed or erudite in terms of contemporary theological discourse or its historiographical development.

Anonymous said...

Shiloh, I am responding to your comments in no particular order.

So you are not really a "Catholic for Obama". What you have described is that you are a "Fallen away Catholic for Obama." Now this makes sense.

A person is not born into the Catholic faith. We are all born pagans and become adopted sons of the Father when we are initiated into our Catholic faith at our Baptism.

If we knowingly reject Jesus speaking through His Church, this is when it is problematic for that individual.

Yes, a person must submit to all the teachings of the Church. This is not a buffet line where we can pick and choose whatever he wants. By picking and choosing one could be described as lukewarm and the Bible has some harsh words for those who are lukewarm. When we do fall we must come back to him in confession.

Yes, we are all fallible but most importantly we are all sinners and that is why we have confession. We need to keep coming back to Jesus often in the sacrament of confession.

Yes, faith comes into play but it is not a "blind faith" as you suggest; it is a reasoned faith (see John Paul II - Fides et Ratio).

One is not a socialist if he believes in everything the Catholic Church teaches. Catholicism does not equate to socialism. Not sure how you would equate that.

I never learned as a Catholic that you can interpret the Bible any way you want. What official Church document teaches that? A lot of poor catechesis over the past 40 years.

Shiloh, I invite you to return to the faith of your roots and truly embrace it for not only your own well being but so that you can be a light to others.

ray jay said...

Anon, what makes you sure you are not a cafeteria Catholic?

Make sure you can answer that one, not for me, but to God someday.

ray jay said...

And Anon, you might want to look more closely into what John Paul II wrote about varieties of socialism in his encyclical Laborem Exercens.

Anonymous said...

Well, Shiloh, you now find yourself in the majority that voted
for Obama. Are you going to pause
and reflect???

shiloh said...

Anonymous said...

this is a gay site run by atheists who claim to be Catholics.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanx for sharing, hopefully you feel better now ...

take care, blessings

shiloh said...

Anonymous said...

Well, Shiloh, you now find yourself in the majority that voted
for Obama. Are you going to pause
and reflect???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, also I am going to support our new president and hopefully he can undo the damage caused by Bush43, the worst president in history!

Absolute power corrupts absolutely! as the last (8) years have proved. And now that the dems have total control, we as a people, must be vigilant.

Feel confident the media, which was asleep at the wheel the last (8) years will do their job, hell Obama doesn't take office for another (2) mos. and the media is already dissecting his cabinet picks ie his every move.

The 24/7 news age and internet will be hounding politicians in the future like no ones business, imo

The irony of course is the internet helped Obama get elected, now the internet will be watching/analyzing his every move, I digress.

take care, blessings

shiloh said...

ray jay said...

shiloh wrote: "You can take everything that is written in the Bible and interpret it "Every which way to Sunday!"

--> Well, you can but that doesn't much get you anywhere, does it? Rather amorphous, jellyfish-like theology, no? And I'd also ask: informed by what and/or whom? Bill Mahler? He can be very funny at times but I don't think he's not exactly informed or erudite in terms of contemporary theological discourse or its historiographical development.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just a few notes re: Maher. His father was Catholic and he and his sister were raised Catholic. He didn't find out his mother was Jewish until he was a teenager. He jokes when he went to confession, he would bring a lawyer w/him. ;) He always wondered why his mom didn't attend church w/their family. His father left the church because of the church's stance on birth control.

Maher is an expert on religion, and it goes w/out saying comedy is almost totally based on the truth ...

take care, blessings

shiloh said...

Anonymous said...

Shiloh, I am responding to your comments in no particular order.

So you are not really a "Catholic for Obama". What you have described is that you are a "Fallen away Catholic for Obama." Now this makes sense.

A person is not born into the Catholic faith. We are all born pagans and become adopted sons of the Father when we are initiated into our Catholic faith at our Baptism.

etc. etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK, in no particular order and expanding ...

I am a Christian who voted for Obama for many reasons, the least of which, unlike evangelicals, is/was religion.

Being baptized at birth is a process void of personal choice, this is why many peeps in their 20's either leave/change their religions. Knowledge/education changes one's perspective on many issues.

More full disclosure, my mom is Catholic, my dad was Protestant. They were married back in the day, 1944, when the Catholic church frowned on mixed marriages. They had to be married in a small chapel, no official church ceremony, I digress. Anyway, being a good Catholic is not based on church attendance, but how one lives their lives, imo. In that respect my dad was a better Catholic, than many/most Catholics I have come to know.

btw, my dad was not political in any way shape or form. Maybe not being political makes that person a better Christian, eh ;)

I used to get off the bus every morning and attend mass up until 4th grade, my sister until 8th grade, my mom all the way thru high school, btw, she walked to school, no buses lol, again I digress. Part of the problem of being spoon fed religion on a daily basis, it tends to become less relevant over time and one can become lazy ie me.

It comes down to faith, which is fine, to each his own ie freedom to think. One should not blindly believe any faith, imo.

Your comment re: Socialism gave no specifics, so I won't reply other than to reiterate, You can interpret the Bible every which way to Sunday!

Try arguing your religion w/Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Taoists, etc. etc. and see how many converts to Catholicism you get, 'nuf said!

I will not argue your faith per se, but please don't try to tell me you have found Nirvana w/your religion. Original sin tells us we all our fallible and hopefully are striving for that more perfect union! on a daily basis.

Repeating ... it's not whether you attend church every wk, it's how one leads their life! cafeteria Catholics etc. notwithstanding ...

take care, blessings

p.s. I went to a Jesuit high school, and took a course my Jr. year in Eastern Religions. This I say in favor of Jesuits who obviously weren't threatened by knowledge of competing religions.

ray jay said...

Mahler is an expert on religion?

Sorry, I don't think so.

Shiloh, I think you are to the Democratic Party what Rustler45 is to the Republican Party.

Neither one of you is doing your professed cause any good.

If you want to join the church of Mahler since you believe that everything he says is the truth, that is surely your right and prerogative.

But if you want to base your theological beliefs upon the perspective of a comedian, don't expect to gain too much traction with your screeds.

Anonymous said...

Hey Ray Jay: I will read the document you referred to, Laborem Excercens. Do you think he is promoting socialism in his encyclical?

I know you want me to answer to God on your question regarding cafeteria Catholicism. But since you threw it out on the board, I will answer you too.

I accept everything that the Catholic Church teaches on matters of faith and morals. It does not mean I don't fail to live up to my end of the bargain. I am a sinner like everyone else.

On discipline matters I have some latitude. I strive to follow the Church's teaching if in doubt.

Do you accept the Church's teachings or do you pick and choose between the meat and veggies?

Hey, you don't need to answer me either but you too should be prepared, be on watch to answer God when your time comes.

Anonymous said...

RJ, you're doing for the Catholic Church what you're claiming Rustler is doing for the Republicans.

Anonymous said...

Ray Jay, you seem like a reasonable fellow. What proportionate reason did you consider when voting for Obama?

shiloh said...

Mahler is an expert on religion?

Sorry, I don't think so.

Shiloh, I think you are to the Democratic Party what Rustler45 is to the Republican Party.

Neither one of you is doing your professed cause any good.

If you want to join the church of Mahler since you believe that everything he says is the truth, that is surely your right and prerogative.

But if you want to base your theological beliefs upon the perspective of a comedian, don't expect to gain too much traction with your screeds.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We disagree on Maher, no biggie.

hmm, comparing me to Rust, someone whose only purpose at this blog is to call me and others names and post nauseating kindergarten nonsense ie an inane, childish troll!

Cause, what cause, I only give my views w/no agenda, whereas Rust is only here to cause trouble as he copies and pastes his nonsense over and over again and Katherine deletes it every time.

btw, I'm a liberal independent and Rust whatever he may be, I would compare him to Coulter, Falwell, Robertson, Malkin etc. whose over the top minutia nonsense has very limited/diminishing returns ie preaching to the choir! Poster boys and girls for not voting republican.

And posting on the internet, in general, has very little to do w/advancing or diminishing any cause. One must get out in their community to effect real change for whatever one's agenda may be.

The internet is good for fund raising and little else re: politics. You give posters on the net far too much credit in their ability to change or effect public policy. YouTube, fund raising, mass media yes they have an effect on politics. Individual posters on various blogs, not so much ...

The only reason I occasionally reply to Rust is for my own amusement! ;) As a general rule, getting into a discussion w/an unarmed man serves no useful purpose. Which is why I don't call him childish names like he does to me and others, what would be the point.

take care, blessings

ray jay said...

<>What proportionate reason did you consider when voting for Obama?

--> I think Kmiec does a good job of explaining it. Then, too, I am prolly more of a "cafeteria Catholic" than him but I don't think that makes me necessary better or worse than him. But I agree, we all got lots of explaining to do to God. And I'm hopin' and trustin' he's mighty merciful.

About Laborem Exercens... the way I read it is: Under totalitarian state socialism, man exploits man. Under monopoly corporate capitalism, the reverse is true. I really don't think JP2 was at all opposed to democratic socialism. And he certainly was not anti-union. And as a topper, I'd say without any equivocation, that he viewwed many of Marx's insights in a positive light. Aside from the very serious matters of abortion rights, birth control, and stem cell research, I think he would have gotten along wonderfully with Obama.

And you're right, Shiloh. The comparison to the Colt45 guy was unfair to you. I don't think you are at all nasty (whereas I can get pretty caustic at times). So, sorry. But try reading a few encyclicals along with going to Bill M. movies, heh?

shiloh said...

Ray, have not seen Bill Maher's movie although I do watch HBO's 'Real Time' religiously ;) and I was raised on the Baltimore Catechism. Never claiming to be an expert on religion, I am quite aware of religion's effect pro and con throughout history ...

As w/most everything in our society, religion can be used for both good and evil depending on one's agenda.

take care, blessings

Rustler45 said...

IDIOT SAID: "Absolute power corrupts absolutely!"

That's one of those fun platitudes that liberals love to quote, but it is untrue.

Look to history. There have been many kings in history who ruled justly.

Here's one for you that is much more accurate.

Liberalism is absolute corruption seeking absolute power.

Kurt said...

That's one of those fun platitudes that liberals love to quote, but it is untrue.

It is a quote from Lord Acton, a favorite of conservative Catholics.

Anonymous said...

I completely agree with Kurt and shiloh, concerning sin and sinners. My world has been illuminated by great works of art created by homosexual men, clearly inspired out of love for God the Father and joy in their faith. I remember a parable about "He who has no sin shall cast the first stone." I think this would apply to the thinking concerning sexual preference.

shiloh said "Being baptized at birth is a process void of personal choice, this is why many peeps in their 20's either leave/change their religions. Knowledge/education changes one's perspective on many issues." Yes education is the key to understanding, but I do believe God's love and salvation are gifts he has given to all of us, so baptism at birth to me, simply affirms that. But again let me say, education is the foundation that allows us a more complete understanding of everything. There are certainly some things not even the most brilliant of men or women will never be able to comprehend, however the more we can build on the success and failure of those who came before us, the better off we're gonna be.

I think we have seen enough failure for a while, and I’m looking with hope towards the future for the first time in a very long time now.

OK, serman over ROFL

Anonymous said...

I said a whole Rosary before posting. I don't know why you have a picture of the Pope superimposed with BO. That is very misleading to people viewing your blog.

Katherine said...

I said a whole Rosary before posting.

Excellent.

I don't know why you have a picture of the Pope superimposed with BO. That is very misleading to people viewing your blog.

Because the topic is the Pope and the President Elect. Most of our other readers understood it.

Susan said...

Get off it, Katherine. You are trying to imply some sort of endorsement by the Pope. Stop being so disingenuous.

CatholicsForDemocracy said...

"Maher is an expert on religion, and it goes w/out saying comedy is almost totally based on the truth ...."

Shiloh,

I am a fan of Maher's humor. But I will also count myself among those who do not accept that Maher is any "expert on religion." He is an expert on an image of religion that is popularly and cynically received, and he uses that image to successfully promote his career.

But Maher's understanding of religion, I believe, is as superficial and perverted as the understanding of religion possessed among the right-wing cabal who attempted to manipulate our faith to promote their own agenda in the name of religion.

shiloh said...

Let me rephrase, he's knowledgeable on the hypocrisy of religion ...

and of course he stretches the truth for comedic purposes.

take care, blessings

Rustler45 said...

Shyter whines: "It is a quote from Lord Acton, a favorite of conservative Catholics."

Which only proves that that some conservative Catholics are just plain stupid or aren't really conservative. I have never known anyone who quoted it who had any depth of knowledge or wisdom whatsoever.

Anonymous said...

''Catholics'' that voted for Obama should be Excommunicated.

Kurt said...

And the fact they have not been shows where the Pope stands.