Wednesday, November 5, 2008

CATHOLICS ELECT OBAMA PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES


145 comments:

Thom Curnutte said...

Yes we did.

:-)

Hell, yes, we did.

Anonymous said...

I do not think that is anything to be proud of.

peregrinator said...

I hope this blog stays up for the duration of the Obama presidency.

While I hope and will pray with all my might that no such measures come through the legislature- I intend to track the measures signed into law by Pres. Obama and if they actually further Catholic social teaching at all.

(Hint: FOCA does not further Catholic social teaching.)

I intend make sure that Catholics who supported him cannot forget or ignore his record, lest we make such a dire mistake again.

catholicpat said...

Now that we know Barack Obama is our President-Elect everyone needs to pray for him. There was, nor will there ever be a Perfect Candidate, but we have spoken and now we must work with him to improve our nation. We must begin all things with prayer.

I pray that all those that opposed him will now gather in prayer to ask for guidance on how to work with him on areas that we strongly disagree on. God can change hearts and we must not fall into the media trap of name calling, pointing fingers or giving up. We have to work together in a prayerful, respectful and Christian way to ensure our Catholic values are upheld.


Share your prayers for President-Elect Obama at http://tinyurl.com/3graa3.

FinishTheRace said...

Why was my comment deleted? I had no bad language or anything. I simply stated challenging points to consider. I guess my words pierced someone's heart.

FinishTheRace said...

My challenge to you was to seek what the Church teaches and to follow Christ. We must confess our sins before receiving Holy Communion if in the state of mortal sin. The Catechism explains the conditions that are necessary for you to understand before you know if your sin is mortal. We know objectively that voting for a candidate that supports abortion rights when there is a viable alternative is gravely sinful. This is one of the conditions. Did you vote with this understanding? Here is more from the Catechism:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

God is just and he is all merciful! Mercy is found in the Sacrament of Confession.

Rustler45 said...

CATHOLIC PAT SAID: "I pray that all those that opposed him will now gather in prayer to ask for guidance on how to work with him on areas that we strongly disagree on."

Pat, you obviously don't understand liberals (i.e. Marxists). You don't work WITH liberals. You fight them tooth and nail with everything you have.

Mark my word, they don't intend to work with you. They intend to control, subdue, and subjugate you. Their goal is to annihilate you.

If you think differently you are naive.

Rustler45 said...

FORMER RUSSIAN SAID: "Let's work with Joe Stalin."

Anonymous said...

Rustler is right!

Matt said...

Rustler is not right, he is very, very wrong. It is not difficult to distinguish between a liberal, a socialist, and a communist. Come on, people!

Rustler45 said...

MATT SAID: "It is not difficult to distinguish between a liberal, a socialist, and a communist. Come on, people!"

Matt, if that's all you know you're an idiot.

Marie-Elsie said...

I know that it will take some time Rustler so let's start today. President Obama. Repeat 4 times a day until the name and title can roll off your tongue.

Come on! President Obama!

joe the catholic said...

Yes, please keep this website going throughout the Obama presidency the next 8 years! You gave me heart throughout the campaign and now I rejoice with you in our victory shared the world over! Keep it rolling!

I would also like to request a further breakdown of the Catholic vote if you happen to come about it. I'm particularly curious as to the percentages in terms of Catholic whites, Catholic Hispanics, Catholic men and women, and etc. Thanks for all your good work!

Rustler45 said...

On second thought, for everyone else's benefit because Matt is not going to understand anything I say:

Matt, liberalism, socialism, and communism are all three sins punishable by Hell Fire. Do you grasp that?

Liberalism is actually the mother of communism/socialism. They're all liberals.

Of course you don't. Argue the difference with the devil. Go here and read:

LIBERALISM IS A SIN

Practically speaking, a liberal is basically a communist wannabe. All communists are socialists. All socialists are liberals. Communists call liberals "useful idiots." That's you Matt. You're a useful idiot. Liberals believe that they are comrades in arms with communists. Communists despise liberals and intend to shoot them first because liberals are traitors. They are traitors to their country and traitors to their religion. No one has any use for a traitor especially the ones who are using them. Remember Judas?

joe the catholic said...

BTW, hustler45... I'd like to do my bit to help you get your message out even more especially over the next four years. How can I can I contribute to your cause? I am especially interested in making sure that Sarah Palin is the heir apparent of the Republican Party. God works in strange and mysterious ways.

Rustler45 said...

JOE, THE MARXIST CATHOLIC SAID: "...and now I rejoice with you in our victory shared the world over! Keep it rolling!

"WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR CHAINS!"

Rustler45 said...

MARIE ELSIE SAID: "Repeat 4 times ... blah blah"


Heil Hussein!

joe the catholic said...

What kind of cow are you guys giving birth to? 54-45%! God bless your incessant hard work! Really I'd just like to help you get Sarah Palin nominated by the Repubican Party next time around.... In fact, I may even switch parties just to join in the fun!

shiloh said...

Marie-Elsie said...

I know that it will take some time Rustler so let's start today. President Obama. Repeat 4 times a day until the name and title can roll off your tongue.

Come on! President Obama!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Marie-Elise, Rust/Ma should say President Barack Hussein Obama !!!

Rust, say it loud and say it proud brother, Barack Hussein Obama has been elected the 44th president of the United States of America !!!

It's easy Rust, it rolls off the tongue, eh ...

take care, blessings

joe the catholic said...

I'm really wondering if hustler and the rest of the naysayers are for real. Really, they did more to elect Obama than I could have ever done. Such incessant, obsessive energy! Keep it up, hustler, et. al! Eight more years!

Sean said...

Happy days are here again!!!!!!!!!

Katherine said...

"I intend to track the measures signed into law by Pres. Obama and if they actually further Catholic social teaching at all. "

I would encourage you to do so, taking those pieces of legislation so identified by our bishops rather than your private understanding of CST.

I would also be willing to place side bet President Obama does not sign FOCA at any point during his term.

Rustler45 said...

JOE THE MARXIST SAID: "Really, they did more to elect Obama than I could have ever done."

Joe, if that's true--then just why does Katherine delete my posts?

Rustler45 said...

SCUTTLEBUTT SAYS: "The Republicans deliberately took a fall.

Their reasoning is that the economy is so messed up along with several other things that they don't want the blame for what's going to happen in the next 4 years. It's so bad already from 50 years of Democrat politics that there's nothing anyone can do about it so they want Obama to take the hit for it.

He is so stupid that he is going to really screw things up. Yeah, we're going to have change alright--from bad to worse.

Just sit back and watch.

Rustler45 said...

Sean said...
"Happy days are here again!!!!!!!!!"

You mean like under Clinton?

Anonymous said...

"I intend to track the measures signed into law by Pres. Obama and if they actually further Catholic social teaching at all."

Now please tell us just how you are going to do that? You just demonstrated by voting for an abortionist and infanticide maniac that you don't know enough about Catholic teaching than to think it's alright for you to receive communion.

joe the catholic said...

huster, I can't answer for somebody else. But if I were the group moderator, I'd welcome your comments as a means of showing folks who would find their way to this webside what kind of folks support(ed) McPalin. Really, it's very hard for me to understand how somebody could even think he can make comments like you do, without making most people more supportive of Obama. That's why I think you might even be a secret supporter of Obama. But, heh, I sure ain't interested in stopping you. A shame though how now a lot of Republicans are attacking Governor Sarah Palin far more viciously than Democrats ever dreamed. And it's Faux News reporting it! So please write them, too, and defend the good lady's honor! She needs your help!

joe the catholic said...

anon wrote: you don't know enough about Catholic teaching than to think it's alright for you to receive communion.

--> You are calling 54% of all Catholics dummies. Hardly a good way of making your point. But go ahead, please. More frothing, please.

Marie-Elsie said...

Now that we have elected President Barack Hussein Obama (I love saying that name), I think it is time for us to continue the work by doing our share to take care of the least of those among us.

The party is over! Let's get to work.

Thank you Katherine for all you did and yes, please keep the site up so that we can continue to support President Barack Hussein Obama.

Marie-Elsie said...

People all over the world are happy for us because we pushed past our barriers to elect Barack Hussein Obama.

Obama has done more to decrease the recruitment for our enemies than any wars could have accomplish. We are no longer the pariah of the world.

FinishTheRace said...

54% of Catholics either refuse the Church's teaching with respect to cooperating with evil when voting for a candidate who supports abortion rights, don't care about children at the earliest stages of development or are simply ignorant.

I understand that 50% of Catholics who attend Mass weekly voted for McCain. A conclusion can be made that the more one follows and adheres to one's faith, the more likely they recognize that you cannot vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights when there is a viable alternative. 50%for McCain is not a number to boast about either. I would gather to guess that Catholics who attend more than once per week, the McCain support would go up further.

Also, I would not think about compromising on the Church's teaching regarding the abortion issue so I don't hurt peoples' feelings.

You know the saying, "if 10 people are jumping off a cliff onto dry land 1000' below..." would you follow them over the cliff so that you don't hurt their feelings.

When you compromise between truth and a lie, what you have still is a lie.

Example:
Truth: abortion stops a beating heart.
Lie: abortion does not stop a beating heart
Compromise (Lie): abortions in cases of rape and incest don't stop a beating heart

joe the catholic said...

So 50% of Catholics who go to Mass regularly voted for Obama? That's great! But you still stoop to name calling and casting aspersions.

Given that this 50% voted for Obama, that derails your conclusion that attending Mass regularly has anything to do with the percentage of voters who voted either way. You're not seriously going to argue that a a 4% polling difference is all that significant, are you?

FinishTheRace said...

49% voted for Obama. 1% voted for other. Once per week Mass attendance is an obligation and a minimum requirement. It does not mean that those who attend only weekly accept the Church teachings or are even aware of the Church's teachings.

I admit that the difference is not large but it is actually 5 points less for Obama and 6 points more for McCain. It is a trend in the correct direction, the direction of protecting life in its most vulnerable stage.

Once upon a time I was a Sunday Catholic only and my views included accepting abortion in certain circumstances (rape, incest, etc). I thought I knew better. Perhaps I was my own authority. I did not understand the role that Jesus has in speaking through his Church.

It is only by God's grace through the Sacraments that I have come to appreciate the Church's role in my life and now it is a daily task to strive for holiness now. I continue to fail and I know my failures by measuring them against the teachings of the Church. I am no longer the arbitrater of truth. Are you the arbitrater of truth? Are moral truths relative to you?

I know many Sunday Mass Catholic attendees that schedule their Sunday Mass around football games on television and other worldly entertainment. I am not against football and entertainment but Mass is first and foremost.

In the evangelical community the number of evangelicals who attend weekly service (no obligation to do so in Protestant faith traditions that I know of)who supported McCain was in excess of 70%. Evangelicals that did not attend weekly, the number was closer to 54% for McCain.

Our evangelical brothers and sisters demonstrate they understand the issue better than many of our fellow self described Catholics but that is another discussion.

I believe it is clear that the more that one is in touch with their faith (frequent Mass attendance and reception of the Sacraments especially confession), the more they will follow the Church's teaching with respect to their political obligation to limit evil done through their vote.

Katherine said...

In the evangelical community the number of evangelicals who attend weekly service (no obligation to do so in Protestant faith traditions that I know of)who supported McCain was in excess of 70%. Evangelicals that did not attend weekly, the number was closer to 54% for McCain.

Why do you consistently exclude non-whites from your definitions of people of faith? Do you think a person does not count if they are not white?

joe the catholic said...

49% 50%. I attend Mass every Sunday and sometimes more frequently. I am pro-life. I voted for Obama. I am not a Marxist. In fact, I come from a background that makes me more experientially anti-communinist than you. It seems to me that your comprehension of Church teaching is about at par with your understanding of polling and statistics. Regarding the former, please see:

http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/article.php?id_article=2355

Anonymous said...

And don't think every Catholic who voted for McCain thinks he would be sinning if he did not.

Rustler45 said...

JOE THE MARXIST SAID: "Really, it's very hard for me to understand how somebody could even think he can make comments like you do, without making most people more supportive of Obama."

Well, ya know something? The people who felt the sting of Jesus's whip felt the same way you do.

Rustler45 said...

JOE THE MARXIST SAID: "I attend Mass every Sunday and sometimes more frequently."

I appreciate your GREAT humility. I am sooooo impressed.

JOE THE MARXIST SAID: "I am pro-life. I voted for Obama."

I am pro-Jew. I voted for Hitler.

JOE THE MARXIST SAID: I am not a Marxist. In fact, I come from a background that makes me more experientially anti-communinist than you.

I....don't....think so. Tell me Joe, what's the difference between a communist and a Marxist?


JOE THE MARXIST SAID: "It seems to me that your comprehension of Church teaching is about at par..."

You voted for Obama while the Church teaches that you cannot vote for a pro-abortion/infanticide politician and you are going to lecture someone else on their comprehension? You are a pompous ass.

(With the most disrespectful voice I can muster) Sorry Joe if I don't talk nice to you, but Jesus instructed on how to talk to Pharisees.

JOE THE MARXIST SAID: http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/article.php?id_article=2355

Wow Joe! You claim you're not a Marxist and then you recommend a communist inspired publication.

Whoa, we're dealing with a moron.

joe the catholic said...

Now you are comparing yourself to Jesus? How arrogant and outright sinful! And how dare you call me a Marxist! I grew up in a communist country and know more about communism first hand than you will ever read about. Shame on you, hustler.

Rustler45 said...

JOW THE MARXIST SAID: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

RUSTLER45 SAYS: You idiot. You grew up in a communist country (which you failed to mention) and you vote for Obama? Obviously you must still be a communist (i.e., Marxist).

In the spirit of King Juan Carlos to Chavez. Sit down and shut up lamebrain.

FinishTheRace said...

Katharine said: "Why do you consistently exclude non-whites from your definitions of people of faith? Do you think a person does not count if they are not white?"

Katherine, why did you bring race into the equation? I merely presented statistics to illustrate a point. Never did I define any non-whites in any of my posts as people of no faith. If non-whites were not included in the statistics I cited it was not my intent to do exclude them. Perhaps you should retract your statement. This is either a misunderstanding on your part or rash judgment. I hope just a misunderstanding.

Of course I know many non-whites who are people of faith and they are in my immediate family. My wife is not caucasion.

Do you believe anyone voted for Obama simply solely because of his race or made Mr. Obama's race the paramount issue? If so, that is racist.

Martin Luther King would be disappointed if the color of a person's skin was held up higher than a person's character.

Also, Joe is the one asking for a breakdown by whites, blacks, hispanics and gender. Commonwheel magazine often has articles that undermine the authority of the Church so I don't waste my time with them as a rule.

I jumped to the link Joe provided since he was so kind to provide it and of course it was the Doug Kmiec argument and the acknowledgment of the author that he is really prolife and this is why he supports Mr. Obama, etc. There is nothing like voting for someone who supports abortion rights to further the cause of the pro-life movement? Huh?? The "all issues are equal" rhetoric is nauseating and tiring.

William J. Gould, author of the article Joe cites is an individual. I guess you can say he is his own authority.

If my understanding of Church teaching is so flawed, why do I have the weight of the bishops on my side when it comes to prioritizing the issues when voting.

Tell you what. You name a bishop with a quote who believes that all issues are equal and I will provide a counter quote to you demonstrating that the life issue is paramount. We can take turns until either side runs out of quotes. Even better, lets look at the entirety of Church teaching on the issue quoting encyclicals, in context until we run out.

I know many of you on this board like to quote the document called Faithful Citizenship. This document was based on an encyclical called the Gospel of Life written by Pope John Paul II and another document Living the Gospel of Life written by the US Bishops. This document has been often misrepresented. No document including Faithful Citizenship can be taken in a vacuum so keep on reading.

Archbishop Chaput, Bishop Farrell, Bishop Vann, Bishop Finn, Bishop Vasa, and countless other faithful bishops when speaking on faith and morals in union with the pope are infallible provided our marching orders on political responsibilty.

I will not yield to the para-magisterium of Kmiec, Gould, or anyone else if their argument is against what the Church teaches on any issue including political responsibility.

Rustler45 said...

MARXIST JOW SAID: "Now you are comparing yourself to Jesus?"

No you dunce, I am comparing you to the Pharisees.

Rustler45 said...

FINISHTHERACE SAID: "Do you believe anyone voted for Obama simply solely because of his race or made Mr. Obama's race the paramount issue? If so, that is racist."

The 150% black vote did.

joe the catholic said...

Such anger and bitterness, hustler.
Still seems to me that you are comparing yourself to Jesus as opposed to any Pharisees.

Ah, I see from your additional comments that you are racist aside from being an anti-abortion crusader.

I doubt that the Pope would find the former to his liking or in accordance with Church teachings. Obviously, you are only concerned with certain Church teaching and confuse even those you purport to accept.

joe the catholic said...

Pope John Paul II grew up in a communist country. Does that make him a communist, hustler? Are you really so myopic as to believe that everyone who grew up in a communist country is communist, hustler? If that is so, I suppose you take the credit for the downfall of the iron curtain, refusing to allow any human agency to those of us (the great majority) who daily resisted communist domination as best we could.

Katherine said...

"Katherine, why did you bring race into the equation? I merely presented statistics to illustrate a point. Never did I define any non-whites in any of my posts as people of no faith. If non-whites were not included in the statistics I cited it was not my intent to do exclude them."

If it was not your intention to exclude non-whites, why did you do so? You falsely claimed "In the evangelical community the number of evangelicals who attend weekly service (no obligation to do so in Protestant faith traditions that I know of)who supported McCain was in excess of 70%."

No Exit poll found that. That figure is only the case for white evangelcials. I have no problem putting forward that statisic if one is measuring socio-demographic groups. But if, as you do, you are talking about faith committment, your exclusion of non-whites has no place unless you are proposing their faith is without value.

joe the catholic said...

ftr wrote "If non-whites were not included in the statistics I cited it was not my intent to do exclude them."

--> Then what was your intent in excluding them?

joe the catholic said...

FTR, where in the article I cited did the author ever state or imply that all issues are equal? Please provide the quote that demonstrates your contention.

joe the catholic said...

Hustler wrote "Sit down and shut up lamebrain."

Hustler, do you realize how much you sound like just about every communist with whom I have had dealings?

FinishTheRace said...

Katherine said: If it was not your intention to exclude non-whites, why did you do so? ...

"But if, as you do, you are talking about faith committment, your exclusion of non-whites has no place unless you are proposing their faith is without value."

I guess you missed my last statement that it was not my intention to exclude any one. Perhaps I should have researched the data a bit more before presenting it. I hope you are not judging me rashly. There was no intention on my part to mislead anyone like this website does with the skewed articles from people who dissent from Church teaching.

I acknowledge my error and I will be more careful when presenting statistics. I heard the statistic on the radio. Apparently, whoever did the study must have thought it important to understand the vote of white people I guess.

FinishTheRace said...

Joe the Catholic said: " Then what was your intent in excluding them?" No intent. I did not know they were excluded. My point I was attempting to make with the stat was previously stated. What is it that you don't understand?

FinishTheRace said...

Joe the Catholic said: "FTR, where in the article I cited did the author ever state or imply that all issues are equal? Please provide the quote that demonstrates your contention."

Here is a quote from the article per your request: "

The first is the propensity of many prolifers—including many church leaders—to attach so much significance to opposing abortion that they end up effectively dismissing every other issue as unimportant or of minimal importance. (Indeed, in a recent pastoral letter, Bishop Martino approvingly quoted the view of his predecessor, Bishop Timlin, that “abortion is the issue this year and every year in every campaign.”) While opposition to abortion is surely an important part of Catholic teaching, it does not begin to exhaust the riches of the Catholic social tradition. On the contrary, there are many other important matters—issues of foreign policy (including questions of war and peace), health care, whether and how we are going to meet our obligations to the poor, just to name a few—on which the Catholic social tradition has much wisdom and insight to contribute."

All issues are important but abortion is the primary issue. This article brings confusion to the matter.

joe the catholic said...

So you admit that there was nowhere in the article where the author stated that "all issues are equal."

I don't think the article was at all confusing.

Obviously, your confused understanding of the article and Church teaching led you to make the false claim.

Bearing false witness? Eh?

joe the catholic said...

FTR, I don't understand (I can only guess because I do not know what is in your heart) how you can make a statement purporting to be a fact without giving any consideration to whether the claim makes any sense. Do you realize now that the claim excluded non-whites?

Katherine said...

finishtherace,

I appreciate your clarification that you passed on bad infomation. Unfortunately, the conservative media seems full of this.

The conservatives have now suffered their greatest electoral defeat since 1964. Obama political operatives watched with pleasure as 'Operation Rescue' activists distributed brochures telling people it is a mortal sin to vote for Obama.

Is their any willingness by conservatives to consider the possibility they havea just cause but bad tactics? A bad presentation of their case? That reason and respect can be a part of their argument?

peregrinator said...

Anonymous (Wed. Nov. 6 23 posts down from mine) I ordinarily wouldn't respond to someone who so clearly did not read my original post, but yours is tantamount to slander.

I'm not sure how you concluded I voted for Obama; I'd cut off one of my own limbs first. Rather, I've spent the election cycle debating with the misguided Catholics who thought an Obama vote was justifiable on the one hand, and on the other with the pro-lifer's who felt McCain's stance on ESCR was so horrible as to make it worth risking an Obama presidency by voting third party.

Katherine, I'm going to use my own God-given intelligence first and foremost.

For sources on Catholic social teaching I intend to use primarily Magisterial material (teaching of Benedict XVI, Leo XIII, JPII, Vatican II docs.)

I intend to compare federal bills with measures from my own home state of CA (we've been into social engineering of the worst sort for 15 years now; anything on the federal level will likely be following in our shameful footsteps) and if I want to reference current bishops' statements I intend to rely primarily on statements from the CA Catholic Conference.

But I *am* going to start of my own understanding of Magisterial documents.

peregrinator said...

P.S. I wouldn't bet on FOCA. It's too grave a matter to treat that lightly. I pray it won't make it through the legislature.

Anonymous said...

marie-elsie, you need a brain transplant.

Katherine said...

Katherine, I'm going to use my own God-given intelligence first and foremost.

As do I. Good for you. God bless.

Rustler45 said...

JOW THE MARXIST SAID: "Ah, I see from your additional comments that you are racist aside from being an anti-abortion crusader."

Because I point out that the blacks voted because of racism makes me a racist?

No Jow, it makes you a moron.

Rustler45 said...

JOW THE MARXIST SAID: "Pope John Paul II grew up in a communist country. Does that make him a communist, hustler?"

Of course not ninny, but you are a communist whether you came from a communist country or not.

You made the implication that because you came from a communist country that you are not a communist. Boy, you are more screwed up than a billboard of light bulbs.

Why are you so defensive Jow? Am I hitting a nerve?

Rustler45 said...

MARIE SAID: "blah blah ...so that we can continue to support President Barack Hussein Obama.

Support all his issues Marie?

Abortion/infanticide.
Euthanasia.
Human cloning.
Embryonic stem cell research.
Homosexual marriage/adoption.

Yeah Marie, get out there and support all his issues.

Rustler45 said...

MARXIST JOW SAID: "anon wrote: you don't know enough about Catholic teaching than to think it's alright for you to receive communion."

"--> You are calling 54% of all Catholics dummies."

Jow, you sure have a way of twisting people's words around. Your communist cell training was certainly excellent. And which communist country was it you came from? England or France?

Now let's go back to anon's original statement that said, "you don't know enough about Catholic teaching than to think it's alright for you to receive communion."

Nowhere in there do I see the word dummy.

MARXIST JOW SAID: "Hardly a good way of making your point. But go ahead, please. More frothing, please."

Now just how was he to make his point? He stated an outright fact. You have a problem with that?

Oh, I get it. You read into it and took the dummy business personal. OK Jow.

Jow, quit being so defensive about being a dummy. Your inferiority complex is getting you nowhere.

A quit projecting your frothing on everyone else OK. It's not getting you any points.

Rustler45 said...

MARXIST JOW: "Hustler, do you realize how much you sound like just about every communist with whom I have had dealings?"

So you finally admit you're a communist.

Rustler45 said...

HAHAHAHAHAAAA

Jow, you have been Hustled.

Rustler45 said...

JOE THE PHARISEE SAID: "I am pro-life. I voted for Obama."

Joe, you win. You have made the dunce team today.

I am posting your quote over in my forum under "Stupid Quotes by Supporters of Obama."

Do you need a link to get there or can you find it on your own?

RINGO STALIN said...

HAY JOE TH' COMMIE!!!!.......WERE YOU ONE OF THOSE SCUMBAGS RUNNING AROUND THE WHITE HOUSE CELEBRATING YOMAMA'S VICTORY BY WAVING SOVIET FLAGS??

FinishTheRace said...

Joe the Cath said: "Do you realize now that the claim excluded non-whites?"

I have said such already.

Rustler45 said...

RINGO STALIN said...
HAY JOE TH' COMMIE!!!!.......WERE YOU ONE OF THOSE SCUMBAGS RUNNING AROUND THE WHITE HOUSE CELEBRATING YOMAMA'S VICTORY BY WAVING SOVIET FLAGS??

Yeah, he was there. Didn't you notice the one wearing a dunce hat?

FinishTheRace said...

Joe the Cath said: "So you admit that there was nowhere in the article where the author stated that "all issues are equal."

Hey it is implied. If not, I guess you now understand that you should not vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights when there is a viable alternative.

"I don't think the article was at all confusing."

Fantastic. It is only confusing to people who don't follow the Church's teaching closely.

"Obviously, your confused understanding of the article and Church teaching led you to make the false claim."

Please don't tell falsehoods my friend.

Bearing false witness? Eh?"

Not here brother.

FinishTheRace said...

Katherine said: "'Operation Rescue' activists distributed brochures telling people it is a mortal sin to vote for Obama."

"Is their any willingness by conservatives to consider the possibility they havea just cause but bad tactics?"

"A bad presentation of their case? That reason and respect can be a part of their argument?"

First, thanks for acknowledging something that Joe could not do.

It certainly can be a mortal sin if the three conditions for a mortal sin are met that I alluded to in a previous post.

Telling the truth is always a good tactic but of course prudence should be the guide. Presentation must include truth and at times truth does hurt.

joe the catholic said...

FTR: "Hey it is implied."

It was never implied. In fact, the author made the exact opposite point. You are either unable to read with comprehension or you are purposely bearing false witness.

joe the catholic said...

Actually, that guy with the communist flag was a Republican nit who figured he could project a negative image about the celebration that ringed the White House and kept W up all night. Want to buy a bridge?

And hustler... you've been calling me a commie and a moron from the get-go. I have been persecuted by real communists, not the ones you check under your bed for every night.

BTW, have you noticed that France recently elected a conservative president? You also no doubt think, like Palin, that Africa is a country. Palin-Giuliani in 2012! That's the ticket! I think I'm going to re-register as a Republican so I can vote to ensure it.

And why do you think I would infect my computer by visiting any website you put up? You are unhinged my friend. Really. Please get help. I have nothing else to say in response to your wicked communist-like diatribes. Froth on.

Katherine said...

First, thanks for acknowledging something that Joe could not do.

It certainly can be a mortal sin if the three conditions for a mortal sin are met that I alluded to in a previous post.

Telling the truth is always a good tactic but of course prudence should be the guide. Presentation must include truth and at times truth does hurt.


In this case, Operation Rescue's "truth" helped elect Obama. Hooray for O.R.!!!!!

Katherine said...

Hey it is implied. If not, I guess you now understand that you should not vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights when there is a viable alternative.

McCain doesn't look very viable now. hahahahhaha

FinishTheRace said...

Hey Joe The Catholic, you are one confusing individual. Part of the title name says: "Why this election cannot be reduced to one issue" This is the confusion I am talking about. I have read D. Kmiec and have listened to his position.

I knew there were no guarantees with either of the party candidates' policies moving forward or being enacted but we can only go by what they say. Obama says: end DOMA, enact FOCA, end the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, appoint justices like Ginsberg who are pro-abortion, favor federal funding expansion of embryonic stem cell research, etc. These are pro -death positions. The Church teaches that there must be proportionate reasons for you to support a candidate who supports abortion rights. Please tell me what proportionate reason(s) you considered when you voted for Mr. Obama. My reasons for voting for the other candidate are noted above. You need to be honest with yourself. The Truth (Jesus) will set you free.

Rustler45 said...

FTR SAID: "It certainly can be a mortal sin if the three conditions for a mortal sin are met that I alluded to in a previous post."

Hey Finished, don't let the liberals get you into that argument. Grave matter is grave matter and that makes a mortal sin. The other two issues are between the person who committed the act of grave matter and his priest and God. The leaflets don't even discuss the conscience part of the question and do not need to. The liberals always want to throw those two issues into the discussion as red herrings. They want to yell about "judgmental." That puts you on the defensive and they love it.

They love to confuse the issue of love the sinner and hate the sin. If they can get you to arguing about full knowledge and full consent you're lost. They will end up telling you that you are judging the person while you are only judging the sin.

You're being far to technical with these people. You're not going to convince them of anything. They are programmed like robots and zombies. Figure that out or they will drive you nuts.

Rustler45 said...

FTR SAID: "Please tell me what proportionate reason(s) you considered when you voted for Mr. Obama."

Finished, they don't have any proportionate reasons. We have been going 'round and 'round about that one thing for months now. I cannot get it out of them.

That's because they don't have any and are too ashamed to admit it.

They know he is pro-abortion/infanticide, pro-homo marriage/adoption, pro-euthanasia, pro-human cloning, and pro-ESCR.

They ignore all of those and ignore the bishops who have said that those are five non-negotiables.

You think I am joking when I call them Marxists? You better go to my forum and read the two articles by Fr. Hardon. He says the U.S. is a Marxist country and the most powerful Marxist country in the world. He is right. Read his articles. They will explain it all. They are found in the section called "Marxism, Communism, Socialism, and Liberalism."

When you are dealing with liberals you are not dealing with honest people. You should have figured that out by now. They want you to be nice to them so that they can bamboozle you. Pius X said that kindness to liberals is foolishness.

Rustler45 said...

JOW PARANOIA SAID: "And why do you think I would infect my computer by visiting any website you put up?"

HAR HAR HAR HAR

You aint gonna git any ole virus at my forum. It is Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group.

You have been persecuted by communists? For what? For being too by the book?

Jow, you're not impressing me. If you weren't a Marxist it would show. You protest too much. Quit it. You're never going to convince me that you're a right-wing conservative while being a Democrat and voting for Osama.

You didn't read Liberalism is a Sin did you? Afraid to go there too? Google it. The entire book can be found online in several places. If you actually read it and it impresses you THEN maybe I will listen to what you have to say. Othewise ppptttttthhh.

Rustler45 said...

JOW MARX SAID: "Actually, that guy with the communist flag was a Republican nit...."

No Jow, it was Democrat doing it and telling everyone he was a Republican. The Democrats are always pulling those kind of shenanigans.

joe, not jow said...

Now I get it. Jow. . . It was late at night and I didn't catch it at first. C'mon and say what you really want to say, hustler. Or is it just one of those typos in line with online etiquette? You're consistent with your typo though, which indicates deliberation, intent and purposefulness. I'll let God sort that out for you though. In any event, it is really hilarious you writing about any kind of etiquette, though. Thanks for the yuks.

As far as proportionate reasons go, Kmiec does a great job and so does the author in Commonweal. It's a pity you and FTR have reading comprehension problems but there's not much I can do for that aside from pay my taxes and hope you avail yourself of a government reading program for adults -- but you prolly thinks that's communist so there's little hope for you.

BTW, I also checked out the exit poll statistic FTR cited about about Mass attendence. Looks like that was misrepresented too. The 55% figure he or she used to make a consequently false claim about Mass attendence was actually indicative of church attendance which included not only Catholics but also Protestants and Jews. Another problem with reading comprehension, no doubt. And seeminly worse motivations tied in. Naughty, naughty.

Finally, calling folks who voted for Obama (and Obama) communists, atheists and what-not is what secured the landslide electoral college victory for Obama. Rovian politics are kaput my freind. I can't emphasize enough my gratitude for your continued efforts, buddy. Your indefatigable energy and obsession will guarentee consecutive terms for Obama. 8 more years!

joe, not jow said...

Almost forgot. . . Father Hardon? You're kidding, right?

Anonymous said...

Another pro-lifer who welcomes the Obama presidency:

http://jimandnancyonpilgrimage.blogspot.com/2008/11/pro-lifer-who-welcomes-obama-presidency.html

Rustler45 said...

JOW NOT JOW SAID: "As far as proportionate reasons go, Kmiec does a great job and so does the author in Commonweal. It's a pity you and FTR have reading comprehension problems...."

That's just great Jow. I don't care what Jow Kmiec has to say. He has already discredited himself as useful source. And CommunistWheel? You have to be kidding.

As I said nobody, including you has been able to post the "proportionate reasons" for voting McBama. So don't be telling me any other sources. I don't want to hear them. I only want to hear the reasons from somebody here. I didn't have any problem stating MY proportionate reasons so what is Katherine's problem.

As to your little insult. Typical liberal fare. You want me to be nice, but it's perfectly OK for liberals to insult. So I don't want to hear anymore whining about how I am supposed to be nice and convince liberals to vote Republican.

OK? Now I know you're not going to understand this next statement because you don't understand anything else I say. Jow, you're an idiot.

Rustler45 said...

MARXIST JOW NOT SOW SAID: "Almost forgot. . . Father Hardon? You're kidding, right?"

Sooo Jow, now tell me again that you're not a communist. Only a communist would say what you just said.

Stare into the blinking eyes Jow and repeat after me Jow, "I am not a communist, I am not a communist."

Rustler45 said...

JOWMARX SAID: "Finally, calling folks who voted for Obama (and Obama) communists, atheists and what-not is what secured the landslide electoral college victory for Obama."

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR

OH REALLY? GREAT THEORY. USE THAT IN YOUR POLITICAL SCIENCE CLASS AT BERKLEY. THEY'LL LOVE YOU.

In a whiney voice say, "OK folks don't call communists communists or what-not because it will cause them to vote for Obama bin Laden."

"Whooops, I wasn't supposed to use that "c" word. Sarreeee."

Jow, just face it. You're a communist. You didn't learn anything by being "persecuted."

Rustler45 said...

GRAMMAR JOW SAID: "In any event, it is really hilarious you[r] writing about any kind of etiquette, though."

Jow you just made yourself look illiterate.

Joe, it's best if you don't making any other comments about spelling or typos. People who do that have to be so very careful afterward not to do the same or worse.

GRAMMAR LESSON FOR JOW:

Jow, the rule is "possessive before gerund." Do you know what a gerund IS Jow?

Put your dunce hat on and go get back on your stool. And remember the LESSON--Don't be pointing out typos because it makes you a dunce.

Rustler45 said...

FROTHIE JOWMARX SAID: "... you've been calling me a commie and a moron from the get-go.

HAR HAR HAR HAR I didn't think you noticed. You ARE a genius afterall.


JOWMARX SAID: I have been persecuted by real communists, not the ones you check under your bed for every night.

Found three of them last night so don't be telling me I'm paranoid.

JOWMARX SAID: BTW, have you noticed that France recently elected a conservative president?

Oh really! Marvelous! I bet he's the same kind of "conservative" as is Doug Kmiec. Now they have conservative communist for president. BTW England has one of those too.

You're cracking me up Jow.

joe, not jow said...

There you go, hustler, lecturing about etiquette, spelling and grammar, then you write:

"Joe, it's best if you don't making any other comments about spelling or typos."

Too funny. Almost as funny as your continued deliberate use of jow. But now you're getting altogether too boring and predictable. I think I'll click onto Faux News to get some jollies. They are a laugh a minute, 24/7.

FinishTheRace said...

Rustler 45 said: "When you are dealing with liberals you are not dealing with honest people. You should have figured that out by now. They want you to be nice to them so that they can bamboozle you. Pius X said that kindness to liberals is foolishness."

Perhaps I have been to kind. I try to remember the slogan "in all things charity" but never compromising on the truth.

I agree that the level of ignorance and dishonesty here is amazing. There is a lot of selective reading, self-interpretation of Church texts, and the like.

Like you said they lose on the "proportionate reasons" issue because there are not any.

FinishTheRace said...

Rustler45 said: "You think I am joking when I call them Marxists? You better go to my forum and read the two articles by Fr. Hardon. He says the U.S. is a Marxist country and the most powerful Marxist country in the world. He is right. Read his articles. They will explain it all. They are found in the section called "Marxism, Communism, Socialism, and Liberalism."

I will check out your site. Fr. Hardon is a heavyweight in Catholic thought.

Anonymous said...

No, we won because most people voted in line with our proportionate reasons. You lost. And unto all eternity on more than one count.

>>>Like you said they lose on the "proportionate reasons" issue because there are not any.<<<<

FinishTheRace said...

Rustler45 said: "Hey Finished, don't let the liberals get you into that argument."

"You're being far to technical with these people. You're not going to convince them of anything. They are programmed like robots and zombies. Figure that out or they will drive you nuts."


Hey Rustler45: I understand what you are saying and perhaps I was giving these folks too much credit of being open to the truth. I have been trying to simply educate them in the basics of the faith and how to grow closer to God.

Frequent Confession to a faithful priest is the best remedy for those who reject Holy Mother Church's guidance.

As far as driving me nuts, I have been cracking pecans the last several days and eating them. I know there is a connection there somewhere.

If they refuse to listen to the Church let them be anathema.

Rustler45 said...

Anonymous said...
"No, we won because most people voted in line with our proportionate reasons. You lost. And unto all eternity on more than one count."

And as usual you didn't post what they are. There aren't any.

You voted for Obama because you're a Marxist not for any other reason.

FinishTheRace said...

Some Anon Person who said: "No, we won because most people voted in line with our proportionate reasons. You lost. And unto all eternity on more than one count."

What exactly was that proportionate reason(s)? We are all waiting.

Rustler45 said...

FINISHTHERACE SAID: "Frequent Confession to a faithful priest is the best remedy for those who reject Holy Mother Church's guidance."

For you for for them?

Did you read "Liberalism is a Sin?" The liberal doesn't do any good going to confession unless he has decided to give up liberalism and confess that he has been a heretic. Otherwise, the liberal can't do an honest confession. He doesn't believe in sin and therefore he can't seek forgiveness. It's one of the sins against the Holy Spirit that cannot be forgiven. It can't be forgiven because they refuse to give it up so they die in their sins.

Rustler45 said...

JOW THE DUNCE SAID: "There you go, hustler, lecturing about etiquette, spelling and grammar, then you write:"

You just don't learn do you? Ooops somebody slap me. I forgot. He's a dunce and that's what dunces do.

Jow, you're start to lose it. Oops I forgot that "ing." Dang, now you're going to talk about that incessantly. Jow, just go back to reading Das Kapital and leave everyone alone. You'll feel so much better.

BTW just what WAS that communist country you came from? Are you ashamed of it or something?

Rustler45 said...

On second thought. Jow, don't leave. Please don't leave. I haven't had so much fun in months! You're riot. Most communists aren't any fun, but your just hilarious. I haven't laughed so hard since I can remember.

Now stand up and say something stupid for us Jow. Excuse me I meant Jowe. You wanted an "e" on it. Right?

Katherine said...

"What exactly was that proportionate reason(s)? We are all waiting."

You waited too long. The election is over. Happy days are here again!

Thanks to a wonderful majority of support from Catholics, the President Elect will be taking office on January 20th. Had it not been for the Catholic vote, Obama would have lost!

FinishTheRace said...

Rustler45 said: "For you for for them?"

Of course I meant that comment for them since I make my best effort with God's grace to follow His Church.

I have not read that book but I got your point. I have read other books on dissenters and understand that mindset all too well.

Pride and then the "me first" attitude seems to be the roots of those who claim to listen to the Church but fail to follow Her teachings.

FinishTheRace said...

Katherine said: " 'What exactly was that proportionate reason(s)? We are all waiting.

You waited too long. The election is over. Happy days are here again!"

I understand that you do not know of any proportionate reasons otherwise you would stated those.

Thank you for your clarity.

Anonymous said...

Guess what? Now you are the dissenters! Don't worry. We won't use the laws that George W. Bush heralded in to invade your privacy and clamp down on your freedom of expression (especially since it is in our advantage to allow you to continue to ramble on inanely). Get used to it. It's going to be a long 8 years. And then some!

FinishTheRace said...

Afraid of the truth as more of my comments have been deleted... it seems someone is keeping me from "rambling on inanely" even though I followed the rules of no bad language. I guess this is a Communist forum.

Anonymous said...

Yes indeed, I think it's a Jewish foreigner atheist gay communist forum for Obama lovers! It's a international conspiracy. They're out to get us! They're under our beds. In our closets! Hiding outside our houses in the bushes!

Katherine said...

Dear FinishTheRace,

I thank you for your inquiry. For the minority of Catholics who believe that there is no way to morally vote for a pro-choice candidate, I have no desire to convince you otherwise. Yours is a position of conscience and I respect it. The Catholic majority, namely those of us with the opposite conclusion, will work among ourselves to advance what we have concluded are just and good polices.

Kate

Rustler45 said...

FINISHTHERACE SAID: "I have not read that book but I got your point. I have read other books on dissenters and understand that mindset all too well."

OH NO, actually you didn't get my point if you didn't read THAT one. It is the definitive book on liberalism. You won't know that until you read it. You won't believe what you're reading because it was written over 200 years ago and it described the people in this forum who support Obama. It's like the BIBLE OF LIBERALISM. It's easy reading and so completely accurate. Every Catholic should read it.

It explains not only why liberalism is a sin, but why it is THE sin of all sins. Any normal sin like murder or adultery are just sins and can be confessed. They are like breaking a branch from a tree, but liberalism strikes at the roots of the tree and denies sin itself. When a sin is denied it can never be forgiven. That's why confession doesn't work for liberals.

They don't sin.

Fr. Felix also explains what he calls the sliding scale of disbelief. It's excellent. It's also short for a book.

Rustler45 said...

KATHERINE SAID: "For the minority of Catholics who believe that there is no way to morally vote for a pro-choice candidate..."

Minority??? The percent of church going Catholics that voted for Obama was in the minority with only 45% as opposed to 54%.

Add in the Catholics in name only and you still are 48% to 48%. So there is no Catholic majority who voted for Mcbama.

Catholics in name only don't really count anyway as Catholic. The others who voted for Mcbama and go to Church? They can call themselves Catholic if the want, but they should just go down the street to a Baptist Church. They'd be much more at home. Everyone there will be glad to agree with them that The Catholic Church is wrong.

KATHERINE SAID: The Catholic majority....

Ya know Katherine, majority means nothing to God nor to His Church. I don't recall that He ever asked for a vote on the "Ten Suggestions." Did Paul VI ask you what you thought before he wrote his encyclical Humanae Vitae?

You can argue it with the devil. He likes polls and surveys.

FinishTheRace said...

Katharine said: "I have no desire to convince you otherwise. Yours is a position of conscience and I respect it."

My position is not only a matter of conscience. My position is a matter of an informed conscience, informed by the Church's teachings on the matter, since it aligns with what the Church has been teaching us all along. I have studied the issue and follow the large mass of Bishops who have taught in concert with the whole of Church teaching that to vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights is gravely wrong where there is a viable alternative.

I am not trying to convince you of anything, however it is the Holy Spirit that does the convincing, convicting, and converting.

Do you believe in sin? Do you believe each of the following are sins?

abortion
euthanasia
cloning
homosexual acts
embryonic stem cell research
women's ordination
receiving communion when in the state of mortal sin

Do you believe there is such thing as a mortal sin??

Rustler45 said...

Excellent comment Finish. You are 100% correct.

It falls on deaf ears.

Rustler45 said...

Finish, go here and you'll see the things that liberals believe are sins.

THE LIBERAL TEN COMMANDMENTS

Rustler45 said...

What the hey. You might as well have them right here.

The Liberal Ten Commandments

1. Thou shalt have no false communists before you.
2. Thou shalt believe in other gods as it suits you.
3. THY BOY CHILD SHALT HAVE A JON-JON HAIRCUT and thy daughter's shalt dress like sluts.
4. Thou shalt not be judgmental.
5. Thou shalt not discriminate.
6. Thou shalt honor Marx, Lenin, Martin Luther King Jr. , and Rosa Parks.
7. Thou shalt not be a homophobe.
8. Thou shalt be socialist in all your thinking.
9. Thou shalt hate Joe McCarthy and never admit him to be right.
10. Thou shalt not be a sexist.
11. Thou shalt be a pacifist unless the war is beneficial to the communist side.
12. Thou shalt always lean to the left, no matter what.
13. Thou shalt not eat meat anytime during the week. Eat fish.
14. Thou shalt not be intolerant.
15. Thou shalt not be a racist.
16. Thou shalt be politically correct.
17. Thou shalt not be prudish or a virgin.
18. Thou shalt not be a bigot.
19. Thou shalt live in the real world.
20. Thou shalt love minorities with all thy heart and jam as many planned parenthood 'clinics' as possible into their neighborhoods.
21. Thou shalt not have more than 1.75 children.
22. Thou shalt use birth control, abortion, and homosexuality so that your disgusting race destroys it's disgusting self and so that the Muslims rule the world.
23. Thou shalt not covet an SUV
24. Thou shalt reward people unequally for their labors, in the name of equality.
25. Thou shalt strive to understand a person's true feelings while they stab you and your family to death instead of taking any action to defend either yourself or the innocent.
26. Thou shalt hate and revile tobacco smokers But fall down and adore a big fat doobie.
27. Thou shalt be multi-cultural.
28. Thou shalt be diverse.
29. Thou shalt not admit to all the ones you break as a matter of rule especially commandments 4, 5, 10, 13, 14, 17, and 18.
30. Thou shalt not pay attention to the constitution
31. Thou shalt not take the name of the Supreme Court in vain.
32. Thou shalt not kill except for convenience or sex.
33. Thou shalt not get charged with fraud
34. Thou shalt not take bribes from known criminals
35. Thou shalt not stereotype.
36. Thou shalt not profile.
37. Thou shalt believe that drawings of monkeys getting taller is proof of evolution.
38. Riding a bicycle in the way of traffic is a holy thing.
39. A rite of manhood is getting your first fanny pack.
40. Thou shalt never give a simplistic answer.
41. Thou shalt not censor.

Katherine said...

Do you believe in sin? Do you believe each of the following are sins?

abortion
euthanasia
cloning
homosexual acts
embryonic stem cell research
women's ordination
receiving communion when in the state of mortal sin

Do you believe there is such thing as a mortal sin??


Yes. As well as masturbation, contraception, divorce, usury, racism, warmongering, dishonoring one's parents, defrauding workers of just wages, bearing false witness, adultery, excessive drinking, wife beating, swearing.

Nevertheless, I stand with the Catholic majority on the matter of voting, which is also the position my canoncial pastor and my chief shephard the Archbishop take.

Rustler45 said...

KATHERINE: "Nevertheless, I stand with the Catholic majority....

Katherine, you changes sides? The Catholic majority voted for McCain. Or did you miss that post?

Anonymous said...

Just who is your archbishop, Katherine?

Katherine said...

Just who is your archbishop, Katherine?

The one Pope Benedict gave me.

Rustler45 said...

Hey, Where's JOW THE DEMOCRAT?

Jow, what IS that communist country you came from?

FinishTheRace said...

Katharine said: "yes".

That is a good first step. Neither candidate ran for president on the sins you listed.

Obama was running on at least 5 of the issues that I brought up and these are all intrinsic evils and therefore non-negotiable. You mentioned some intrinsic evils too, but for example neither candidate was running on a racism platform.

I noticed you through warmongering in there. Obama wants to attack Osama in Pakistan without warning the Pakistan government if he has him in his sights. Would that be an example of warmongering?

Katherine said...

FTS,

You need to start over. You have gone off track.

The sinfulness of an act (masturbation, divorce, contraception, abortion, racism) does not end the discussion of the proper public policy. And Seantor McCain, I beleive, has not called for the illegalization of masturbation and supports divorce and contraception -- in fact practices these himself.

The Catholic Majority believes that is not an objective sin to vote for Obama or other candidates who happen to be pro-choice. My Archbishop and canoncial pastor have counseled me towards teh same view as the Catholic Majority.

I respect the Catholic Minority who hold the contrary view.

Anonymous said...

Oh, Katherine, you are just, too , too clever. If your archbishop backs Obama I am sure the Pope is counting the days until he can get rid of him.

FinishTheRace said...

Katherine said: "And Seantor McCain, I beleive, has not called for the illegalization of masturbation and supports divorce and contraception -- in fact practices these himself."

Neither has Senator Obama. I never heard Senator Obama say he would put forth legislation to end masturbation, divorce or contracteption so that is a wash.

But I have heard Obama say on more than one occasion that he supports implementing legislation to protect the evil of abortion, gay marriage, etc. Examples of these includes: FOCA and BAIPA and getting rid of DOMA (he supports gay marriage rights), and embryonic stem cell research.

Katherine said...

"I never heard Senator Obama say he would put forth legislation to end masturbation, divorce or contracteption so that is a wash."

Yes. You're saying a Catholic is not at liberty to think these acts might not be criminal offenses?

Could a Catholic acknowledge Cindy as Senator McCain's "wife"?

Rustler45 said...

"You need to start over. You have gone off track."

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!

Whoa Katherine. You went off track with topics that had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. They were totally irrelevant. And now you're going to tell him that he's gone off track?

Let's remember that you said this:

"I don't support a candidate who favors abortion. I support Senator Obama."

And then you said this:

"I oppose FOCA and disagree with Senator Obama on that issue."

Finish the Race, check that out. There's a lesson here. When someone can totally block out the facts, say two completely contradictory things, and not see that there's a serious disconnect in her own mind, you're going to lose the argument with her. Not because she's right, because if you don't see the problem she will bamboozle you.

This is why liberalism is called a mental disorder.

Next. I pointed out the facts to her on how many Catholics by percent voted for Mcbama and McCain. 54% of church going Catholics voted for McCain. Still she insists that she is in the majority. Is that wacky or what?

Katherine, God doesn't do polls. And it doesn't make a bit of difference that the people in the wrong make a majority. He doesn't adjust things to make them happy. God is NOT a Democrat.

Finished. Notice. I just explained it to her in a bomb proof manner. No one who has any logical reasoning can deny what I have said, yet she will come up with some nonsense from who knows where to try and contradict me.

You're wasting your time Finished. Well maybe not. There ARE others of reasonable mind reading this. That doesn't include Jow the Marxist Democrat.

Looks like he's fled the premises. Probably fled back to Cuba. He couldn't stand the heat in here.

Anyway Finished, I just don't want her driving you nuts.

Rustler45 said...

"Could a Catholic acknowledge Cindy as Senator McCain's "wife"?"

Oh, so NOW you want to judge someone. Do you want to criminalize her? How many times have you been married Katherine. And how many other men have you slept with?

Remember this one?

4. Thou shalt not be judgmental.

Katherine said...

And it doesn't make a bit of difference that the people in the wrong make a majority.

We who you think are in the wrong are making a difference. PRESIDENT ELECT BARACK OBAMA. OUR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!

Hip hip hooray!!!!!!!

Happy days are here again, the skys above are clear again. So let's sing a song of cheer again
Happy days are here again.

Altogether shout it now
There's no one
Who can doubt it now
So let's tell the world about it now
Happy days are here again!

I love it! I am so happy!

Rustler45 said...

"Happy days are here again, the skys above are clear again."

Oh really? And why did the stock market fall after Mcbamma's election?

Oh, I forgot. The sky's are clear again.

When they start rounding up "useful idiots" call me, I'll give you a place to hide.

Katherine said...

Katie's putting on her dancing shoes, because she is going to the ball. We are going to celebrate all night long. Barack Obama and Joe Biden too, they will lead our land. Thank you, Mr. President. We all love you.

McCain and Palin, the voter said no. Back to home with them.

Catholic voters saw the light, they must have read Kate's blog. They voted for the man we need as our President. Thank you Catholics for your votes, without you we would have lost. Professor Kmeic, Martin Sheen, and Caroline K too. They talked to the people in the pews so they knew what was true.

da=da=da=da=de=dum=da=da=de=da.....

Rustler45 said...

Did you notice that Finished? She just jumped right on by all the hard questions and ignored them.

Does that tell you enough?

Rustler45 said...

KATHERINE SAID: "I thank you for your inquiry. For the minority of Catholics who believe that there is no way to morally vote for a pro-choice candidate, I have no desire to convince you otherwise."

Thanks Katherine. You just made Team Dunce again today.

I posted that over in "Stupid Quotes by Obama Supporters."

Rustler45 said...

FinishTheRace said...
"Afraid of the truth as more of my comments have been deleted... it seems someone is keeping me from "rambling on inanely" even though I followed the rules of no bad language. I guess this is a Communist forum."

What did I say?

Rustler45 said...

Anonymous said...
"Yes indeed, I think it's a Jewish foreigner atheist gay communist forum for Obama lovers! It's a international conspiracy. They're out to get us! They're under our beds. In our closets! Hiding outside our houses in the bushes!"

Uh Oh! Jow The ChickenBleep has sneaked bACK in here under cover!!

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!

HI JOW!!!

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!

Katherine said...

Election Day answered all the questions!!!

The election is over. If you didn't vote for Obama, I don't care. That is fine. Do what you want. WE WON!!!

Welcome to four years of America under Obama! hoo-ray!!!!!

cha-cha-cha.....cha-cha-cha... gonna be dancing at the ball.

Rustler45 said...

KATHERINE SAID: Election Day answered all the questions!!!

I don't think so. There's still that little matter of his birth certificate. He produced nothing. He is not qualified to take office until it is proven that he is natural born. He can't, but you know the Democrats, they can finagle they way through any illegality. They have either paid off the right people or threatened them with their lives and the lives of their families. Count on it.

KATHERINE SAID: The election is over. If you didn't vote for Obama, I don't care. That is fine. Do what you want. WE WON!!!

Oh yeah? Just wait. You'll get yours. When an operation of stuffing the ballet boxes is necessary to win an election we all lost.

You can laugh all you want, but you will pay for it along with the rest of us.

Remember? Don't forget the term "useful idiot." You're dancing and celebrating is looking rather foolish when the squad leader yells. READY AIM FIRE!

KATHERINE SAID: Welcome to four years of America under Obama! hoo-ray!!!!!

No kidding. And two months from now you won't be able to find anyone who voted for that wacko. This will be the biggest mess this country has ever seen!

Celebrate all you want Katherine, but this country is in the gravest danger it has ever been in. Just think about all the food coming to the grocery stores near you. It's all canned in, guess where? China. They are our sworn enemies and tomorrow they could poison the whole lot of us.

Think about it while you're dancing.

Rustler45 said...

Is anyone afraid yet? You better be.

Store food and water.

Buy guns and ammo.

Have a plan to evacuate. Keep a bag packed with your survival kit in it.

Do not become a refugee. Avoid the places that are offered as shelter. Get away from the city.

Do not try to fight. Hide out.

Read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's THE GULAG ARCHIPELAGO. Resist, fight back, don't let them take you prisoner.

In Russia those who fought back and escaped when they came in the night, usually were never arrested.

Don't bother with these measures Katherine. They will have come for you long before that.

Of course you don't believe any of this anyway do you?

Anonymous said...

If these guys had the courage of their convictions, they would be in jail for refusing to pay taxes that support authorities who countenance, encourage, and fund abortions. They are cowardly wusses and hypocrits of of the worst kind. All talk, but they don't walk the walk.

Anonymous said...

I have met Solzhenitsyn, and believe me, you are no Solzhenitsyn.

FinishTheRace said...

Rustler45 said: "Anyway Finished, I just don't want her driving you nuts"

Too late I had more pecans last night.

Katherine likes to bring up the Catholic Majority stuff and she has bringing it up wrongly in an effort to support a wrong conclusion. Polls don't mean diddly, not even Bo Diddly when it comes to truth.

This majority and minority of Catholics comments are dillusional. It doesn't matter how many people believe in a falsehood. It is still a falsehood.

I can see the hypocrisy, the disillusionment, and dishonesty from those who rationalize that voting for someone who supports legislation of abortion to protect a false right of killing a group of people.

Hey Rustler45: Here is another commandment for Liberals for Halloween:

42. After you go out and work hard for your halloween candy, you must give your halloween candy to the government; and after taking several pieces, the government shall redistribute it, to those who did not want to go out and get their own.

FinishTheRace said...

Hey Ruslter45: If you went out and worked hard for your candy on Halloween, just give some to me since I did not want to go out and work hard and we will cut out the middle man, the feds...

Anonymous said...

If these guys had the courage of their convictions, they would be in jail for refusing to pay taxes that support authorities who countenance, encourage, and fund abortions. They are cowardly wusses and hypocrits of of the worst kind. All talk, but they don't walk the walk.

FinishTheRace said...

Anon said: "Anonymous said...
If these guys had the courage of their convictions, they would be in jail for refusing to pay taxes that support authorities who countenance, encourage, and fund abortions."

We give to Caesar what is Caesars and give to God what is Gods. This is basic stuff my anon friend.

I am certain the government funds something you don't like. Did you withhold your taxes? Huh??

Anonymous said...

If these guys had the courage of their convictions, they would be in jail for refusing to pay taxes that support authorities who countenance, encourage, and fund abortions. They are cowardly wusses and hypocrits of of the worst kind. All talk, but they don't walk the walk.

FinishTheRace said...

Anonymous said...

Anon said nothing worth noting so I left his comment blank since I dealt with his cut and paste comment already. Try something new and refreshing.


Another commandment for Liberals:

Thou shalt not follow the Truth when personal interests supercede It.

Katherine said...

Could we have a bit more intellectual depth that "I'm right, you are wrong. I have the Truth, you do not"? It's marginally better than Rustler45's name calling, but not much.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and Katherine, you who are so known for your intellectual depth! That is a good one!

Anonymous said...

I have as much right to be incipid, redundant and sound like a broken record as you guys.

If you guys had the courage of their convictions, you wouldn't opt for a cheap cop out. Like war and draft resisters, if you had any real moral fiber, you'd be in jail for refusing to pay taxes that support authorities who countenance, encourage, and fund abortions. You rightwing nuts are cowardly wusses and hypocrits of of the worst kind. All talk, but no walking the walk.

shiloh said...

Hey Katherine, I'm looking forward to (8) years of republican/conservative whining and pathetic name calling!

There is a God !!!

take care, blessings