A recent poll by the Pew Forum shows that by a two to one margin, Catholics support Notre Dame's decision to invite President Obama to receive an honorary degree at its commencement ceremonies later this month. Other about a quarter of Catholics object to it. More than half affirmatively support Notre Dame and the remainder are indifferent to the action.
The poll suggests a small, mostly white wing of the Church remains hostile to the President. Two-thirds of Catholics also give the President high marks on his performance in office.
Even one hard-core conservative website admitted "The absence of a general backlash on the part of Catholics to Notre Dame's invitation to Obama may not come as a surprise, given that most Catholics voted for Obama in the 2008 election and give him positive marks for his performance in office thus far."
43 comments:
As usual, your description of the study is not 100% accurate. If you read it carefully, it finds that those who attend Mass regularly, are more likely to oppose the invite. Those who go less frequently, are more likely to support the decison.
Just like the Most Most Merciful, Lord High Barack Obama, you are slaves to polling, as being slaves to the true teachings of the Catholic Church.
The hard right continues to make a fool of itself. 2:1 in support of Notre Dame. The faithful have some sense.
yeah, Katherine, so white people have more sense than Blacks and the illegals. So what?
11 out of 12 apostles left Jesus at his crucifixion. Did that make the 11 apostles correct?
The majority of bishops in the church in the 4th century supported the Arian heresy. Did that make them right?
Exactly. And the silly Obama haters at 'American Papist' who are tallying up the number of bishops joining in on the hate Obama crusade don't understand this.
Martin, I think the reason that the good folks at American Papist are keeping a tally is that some of us are very happy that the Bishops are standing up for what is right and making a statement about how important the issue of abortion should be for Christians.
I have absolutely no problem with Obama speaking at Notre Dame. He is the president of the United States and is a very accomplished man.
I do have a big problem with the University giving him an "honorary degree." Make no mistake, Obama is 100% pro abortion rights and is appointing people with radical pro abortion views to important positions. For Notre Dame to honor him in this way is disgusting.
About a month ago, I was atg an event and President Obama showed up. When he walked in the room, I honored him by standing (as did everyone else). I suppose I am disgusting according to some Catholics.
This "okay to speak but no degree" is the revised right wing position developed after the found how silly their original position was that he should not be there at all. Do a little research and you will find that that no one from the right was saying this when the invitation was first accepted.
I suppose in a third retreat, we will soon hear that Kurt was okay to honor Obama in a "small" way by standing for him, but it is wrong in a "large" way by awarding an honorary degree.
Further parsing of every action.
Sadly for them, the Obama haters are increasing impotent politically. The only thing about them to fear is that the incite our worst fear.
Katherine, why do you spend so much time putting down white people?
Anonymous, Because a long time ago on another blog she admitted her late husband wanted to live in a dodgy area and she said no because she said she was afraid to live there. Now apparently she feels guilty that she did not want to live with blacks and has to take it out on the rest of us. Right, Katherine?? Remember that???
Katherine, I can't speak for the rest of the "right wing" but the "we should be honored to have him speak, but don't give him any kind of an award" has been my position since this was first announced back in March.
Why do you have to look at things as being so black and white (and I don't mean anything racial) when it comes to everything about President Obama. You seem to jump to the conclusion that just because someone dares to criticize your hero, that means they have "hate" for the man and all who voted for him. Can't you understand that one can be critical of the president and his policies without being some sort of "right wing extremist."
Kurt, I don't hold you in the same position that I hold the premiere Catholic institution of our country. So no I would not find you disgusting if you stood in honor of the president. I would also stand and applaud if I happened to be in a room and President Obama entered.
Sometimes, it seems that a certain amount of common sense is lacking in some of these debates.
Anonymous said...
11 out of 12 apostles left Jesus at his crucifixion. Did that make the 11 apostles correct?
The majority of bishops in the church in the 4th century supported the Arian heresy. Did that make them right?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~And America was founded by either approving or choosing to look the other way re: slavery and the slave trade. So much for the wisdom of our Founding Fathers ie Jefferson owned slaves.
There are many southerners still fighting the Civil War and racists in every sense of the word. There are also northern racists. Racism is not confined to any race or geographical region of the world.
Bush43 was appointed president Dec. 2000 by a 5-4 vote in the Supreme Court. 5 justices decided that a recount of the FL vote was unconstitutional. Oh the irony of many cases re: disenfranchisement which occurred in 2000 and 2004 in FL and OH and elsewhere.
Now we find out Judge Souter was so pissed off by the 2000 Gore v. Bush decision that he stayed a judge for (8) additional years just so he would not be replaced by a Bush appointment. Thank you Judge Souter for your steadfastness and fortitude!
Re: Bush being appointed president and Obama being elected president by 10 million votes. To all those on the losing side of history ~ Get Over It !!!.
I wasn't happy when Nixon was elected, but dealt with it without whining and pitching a fit like the Party of No is now doing. btw, whatever happened to Nixon, oh yea, he resigned in disgrace after violating several provisions of the Constitution of the U.S., I digress ;)
Yea, the current kindergarten mentality of the ever dwindling Rep party is highly amusing to us liberals.
As I said recently and many times previously, the abortion issue is a wedge issue for Reps used only for fund raising. The religious right is now beginning to see how the the Rep party has used them on many evangelical issues ie the Reps don't want Roe v. Wade overturned because the $ would dry up and they would ignite a wave of protest w/women especially white women re: personal rights and privacy.
Republicans are as phony as the day is long re: the abortion issue and the religious right in general!
take care, blessings
p.s. many of these priests and bishops opposing Obama were the same ones who looked the other way re: sexual perversion and violations by priests and bishops over the last 40/50 years in the Catholic church, including the current Pope.
ciao
Kurt, I don't hold you in the same position that I hold the premiere Catholic institution of our country. So no I would not find you disgusting if you stood in honor of the president.I am not sure how to take that. Are you saying I'm so unimportant, I am free to honor Obama?
The point is I honor President Obama. I don't do it because I agree with him on abortion issues and I don't accept the theory that I am precluded from honoring him in any way because of his views on abortion which I disagree with.
Notre Dame takes the same position. It would seem if these principles are valid for me, they are valid for Notre Dame.
They are not honoring him because of his views on abortion and I firmly disagree with anyone who says the President is a disgusting man. He is an honorable man.
I respect people like Archbishop Dolan and others who have suggested that in their opinion they think Notre Dame's invitation was a mistake. I don't respect a much too large number of people who have said very hateful things towards the President and Notre Dame. Frankly, it scares me and it causes me to worry about the President's safety.
I was very moved by Obama's tribute honoring the late Jack Kemp. It showed real class. If only...
I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
Shiloh said..."many of these priests and bishops opposing Obama were the same ones who looked the other way re: sexual perversion and violations"
Oh so, once a person breaks a commandment he MUST now break all the other commandments as well? Where is that written Shiloh?
Why are you people doing Comment moderation? Are you afraid of what someone is going to say? Or is this just the routine liberal censorship that we have all grown accustomed to everywhere we find liberals, the champions of free speech?
You forgot to mention the angry Alumni who have been so upset about this that they have gotten together and have stopped 8.2 million dollars in donations to ND. They have also started and organization called (paraphrase) Replace Jenkins. They intend to keep withholding contributions until he is replaced.
"It would seem if these principles are valid for me, they are valid for Notre Dame."
You only represent the views of yourself so you are free to honor whoever. Notre Dame represents many different people, so as an institution should represent the views of the Catholic faith.
"I firmly disagree with anyone who says the President is a disgusting man. He is an honorable man."
I agree Obama is an honorable man. However, his views concerning the rights of the unborn and in some cases the born do disgust me.
"I don't respect a much too large number of people who have said very hateful things towards the President and Notre Dame. "
I hope you don't include me in that category.
You only represent the views of yourself so you are free to honor whoever. Notre Dame represents many different people, so as an institution should represent the views of the Catholic faith.I am Catholic as well.
Notre Dame is, under canon law, a juridical person, and has the rights a Catholic natural person has. The invitation to the President was vetting through a wide process of consultation among the university community and is widely supported by the university community.
I agree Obama is an honorable man.You are going to have to find me a really good Jesuit to explain the difference between honorable and honor able.
Like you, I disagree with the President on abortion issues. Like you, I believe it is possible to be wrong on abortion law and still be an honorable person. Misguided, yes, but honorable.
"I don't respect a much too large number of people who have said very hateful things towards the President and Notre Dame. "I hope you don't include me in that category.I don't. If you say that Notre Dame's invitation to the President is a statement by the University that it supports abortion, you are simply factually wrong, though that is not a cause for disrespect. If you believe that it might be misunderstood to support abortion, I would disagree with you, but that is a matter of opinion.
If you are concerned about misunderstandings, I would encourage you to look at some of the louder voices opposing Notre Dame. They are harsh, mean-spirited, disrespectful, and sometimes bigoted and even may be inciting evil actions.
I think the pro-life cause has been hurt by the loud voices of hatred towards the President much more than by Notre Dame.
Pure and simple: President Obama should not be given a platform or an honorary degree due to his obvious abortion and ESCR support (cabinet appointments, legislative acts, his own words in support of anti-life measures like FOCA and his support for Embryonic Stem Cell Research).
This is not an opinion. This is basically what the bishop's statement said. It would seem to me if the bishops authored the document, they are in the best position to tell us what the document means. Does this make sense?
Please don't tell me that canon lawyers differ on this. I probably can find a canon lawyer who says that a priest can marry a giraffe.
I would suppose that banning Tom Tancredo from speaking at Providence College was the right thing to do since he is opposed to illegal immigration.
Providence has had Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse and Congressman Patrick Kennedy speak at the school. Both of those politicians support abortion.
What hypocrisy?
Would Fr. Jenkins would most likely allow Congressman Tancredo to speak since he is not a Catholic based on his canon lawyer's interpretation?
This is not an opinion. This is basically what the bishop's statement said. It would seem to me if the bishops authored the document, they are in the best position to tell us what the document means. Does this make sense? It males total sense. And less than 10% of the bishops have said they read the statement the way you do, Offended.
Catholics who do not hate Obama have suggested to put this issue up for a vote at the upcoming bishops conference meeting and so far no one on the right wing has taken up this offer.
Where did you get that 10% statistic from? Statistics are thrown out around here like they are the gospel truth. It is better to read the Gospel than to follow a statistic.
I'm open to correction. can you show me that more than 1/10th of the bishops have said Notre Dame is violating the bishops' decree? Even generosuly counting all of those who have expressed even some mild reservation at the invitiation or said that in their private opinion they think it was not a good idea (certainly not the same as saying it violated orders) you barely get to 10%.
You are the one saying that we should look to the bishops to define thier own document. That is what I have done.
"Just like the Most Most Merciful, Lord High Barack Obama, you are slaves..."
Guess you didn't get the news. President Lincoln freed us. I'm sure you are disapointed.
Jeffrey said...
Shiloh said..."many of these priests and bishops opposing Obama were the same ones who looked the other way re: sexual perversion and violations"
Oh so, once a person breaks a commandment he MUST now break all the other commandments as well? Where is that written Shiloh?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~hmm, the commandments ?!? interesting deflection. I have no problem w/many Catholics protesting abortion and steadfastly and fervently standing up for life because this is their true beliefs. Nobody is in favor of abortion, many are in favor of a woman's right to choose ie choice and privacy.
And speaking of Republican hypocrisy which is what my previous post was basically about, the religious right, many Catholics etc. are totally against abortion, which is fine, but my problem is once the child is born, many of these god fearing Christians don't want anything to do with these mostly minority, living in poverty babies.
All I ask for is consistency ie if you're against abortion, be against the death penalty, and against the illegal, bogus Iraq war also, all of which the Catholic church ie the Pope is/was against also.
Separation of church and state and state can be a tricky proposition, eh!
take care, blessings
p.s. just like Jeffrey, I can deflect also :)
About 60 US bishops have publicly stated that this is not a good idea for obvious reasons. There are 195 dioceses. 60/195 = 31%. Prove me wrong. I am open to correction. You see, I can throw out a stat too. Like I alluded to before, the Church does not run on statistics. If something is wrong, don't do it. Comprende?
About 60 US bishops have publicly stated that this is not a good idea for obvious reasons. There are 195 dioceses. 60/195 = 31%. Prove me wrong. I am open to correction.Ok. You need to measure by a constant standard. About 50 (I'll give you 60 for the sake of arguement) have objected in some way. That counts auxiliary and retired bishops as well as diocesan. There are over 500 such American bishops.
I am sorry, but I have to disagree. An politician who is wrong on abortion cannot be described as an honorable man.
He is a murderer. Murder is not honorable.
With that Jeffrey, you have gone over the top. You may never admit it, but it is outrageous rhetoric like that which has put the Pro-Life Movement in the sorry state it is in. The Republican Party, your traditionally ally, is fleeing from you, less because of the issue but more because you behave in a way no decent person wishes to be associated with.
The Republican leader of the Senate Judiciary Committee, the very conservative Senator Sessions, said today that he would vote for a pro-choice court nominee. In Pennsylvania, the Republican leaders are pushing pro-choice Catholic Tom Ridge to be their nominee.
You and people like you are responsible for the ineffectiveness of the pro-life movement and regardless of your admission to it, are responsible for continued legal abortion in this country.
Jeffrey, you have put yourself outside the bounds of civility
It is disgusting calling the President by implication every person who is pro-choice a murderer.
Obama has murdered no one. Only sick minds would say so.
If every man behaved like Barack Obama, was a good father and loyal husband to one wife, abortion would not be the problem it is.
Jeff is one sick puppy.
Shiloh said: "Nobody is in favor of abortion, many are in favor of a woman's right to choose ie choice and privacy."
Please explain that to the people in China with the one child policy and the UNFPA whose funding supports their forced abortion. So somebody does support abortion.
I am attempting to understand your nuanced statement above -Hypothetical Question: If I support the right of a person to own an AK47 assault weapon. Would you say I am a gun advocate or would you say I am simply pro-choice on the matter?
"the religious right, many Catholics etc. are totally against abortion, which is fine, but my problem is once the child is born, many of these god fearing Christians don't want anything to do with these mostly minority, living in poverty babies."
This is not true. I have seen statistics that show otherwise and actually it is really quite embarassing. I will hunt some down if you care to see those for yourselves. A simple google search will probably be all that is needed.
"All I ask for is consistency ie if you're against abortion, be against the death penalty, and against the illegal, bogus Iraq war also, all of which the Catholic church ie the Pope is/was against also."
In all sincerety, please read what the Catechism says on the matter. These issues are not held on the same plane by the Catholic Church. Direct abortion is always wrong. The death penalty which I frankly abhor is not always wrong and can be utilized at times to protect society. This would be a self defense mode. War is not always wrong either. Once again, self defense is ok. If not, I guess we never should have fought in WWII either.
Where are the results of the Rasmussen poll, Katie?????
Re: Offended Catholic ~ lol China, I was only talking about the U.S. In any event, if one is sooo concerned re: China, maybe you should move there and try to change their policy, eh. The rest of your post is either utter nonsense or total deflection!
Re: Susan ~ Rasmussen is an outlier ie totally in the tank for Reps er fixednews in that they phrase their questions in a way to get their desired results. Anyways, polls, schmolls! If one is sooo sincere in their beliefs, why is one relying on polls in the first place.
Bottom line, the American people like Obama and his family and this is driving the religious right nuts and as I have mentioned, the next official poll, no margin of error are 2010/2012 when the Dem party will be in excellent shape to trounce the Party of NO! once again.
See y'all Nov. 2010 ...
take care, blessings
p.s. Tom Ridge just decided not to run for the senate in PA. One of the reasons Republicans are having such a difficult time finding good candidates to run is because the Reps really, really don't like being in the minority! whereas liberals never go away, no matter what, come rain or come shine :) I digress ...
p.s. Ridge is pro-choice ;) ie all the Reps have left who want to run for high office are total wing nuts! ciao
Hey Shiloh, you so easily dismissed my points as "deflection" or "utter nonsense".
I guess you don't have a response. Read the Catechism lately?
I think you said before on this blog that you left the Catholic Church so maybe you should change the blog name to read Catholics and Former Catholics for Obama. A little bit of honesty would be appreciated by all.
Offended Catholic, I consider myself a non church going christian. Was raised Catholic ie the Baltimore Catechism ~ Who is God? God is the creator of all living things. Went to a Jesuit high school.
hmm, there's nothing like a good Evolution vs. Creationism discussion, eh, I digress :)
What blew my mind was ~ the always was, always will be ie infinity concept. Yes, religion comes down to faith, whether one is a true believer or a heathen ;)
In any event, I could be a Catholic, Protestant, Jew or Muslim, but deflection is still deflection and nonsense is still nonsense. We obviously disagree on faith.
btw, the (2) political/religious discussions I try to avoid are evolution/creationism which usually ends up going nowhere. I'm here, how I got here not that important imo and the abortion issue which also comes down to faith versus science and also is a heated discussion which ends up going nowhere ...
take care, blessings
p.s. I've mentioned before my mom is Catholic and very religious and my dad was a non church going Protestant. One is judged on not whether you attend church every Sunday, Saturday or Friday, but on how one lives their life! which is why I'm a free thinking bleeding heart liberal Independent ...
ciao
Shiloh,
Polls, schmolls? You better check back with Katherine who, in April, was touting the results of the Pew survey that went in her direction. I guess they are considered valid by her IF they agree with what she says.
Susan, as I mentioned, the next official poll, no margin of error is Nov. 2010.
The Dems should get the hat trick, not because the Dems are God's gift to humanity ;) but because they have no rational opposition ie the Rep's are totally discombobulated. Much like the Dems in 1984 when clueless Mondale opposed Reagan.
take care, blessings
Yes some things always were, always are, and will always will be. There are moral absolutes. Like I said before: There is not a single instance where direct abortion is allowed. It is always wrong.
The Catholic Church says Sunday is a Holy Day of obligation so yes going to Mass on Sunday for a Catholic is obligatory under the pain of sin. Of course there are legitimate reasons if one misses Mass but if one skips Mass because they don't feel like going, it is a problem and yes the Church does have jurisdiction over these matters because God has given her the authority to bind and loose.
I understand if you don't believe this way since you say you could belong to one of several different religions anyway.
abortion is objectively wrong. Inviting the President to speak is not morally wrong.
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